Almost Famous

Jann Arden  0:00  
Jan. Well, gracious, good day. I'm Jan Arden, welcome to the world of podcasting. If you're just joining us, I'm here with Caitlin green. Sarah Burke, Good morning, guys.

Unknown Speaker  0:17  
How are you I'm excellent.

Jann Arden  0:19  
Oh my god, do tell

Caitlin Green  0:21  
Oh, because I had a weekend getaway. And those are always very reviving and wonderful. And so we enjoyed it myself, my husband and a group of our friends went to Prince Edward County. Oh, I

Jann Arden  0:33  
love that. You like Prince Edward County.

Caitlin Green  0:35  
I love it. I've been going to Prince Edward County since before it was cool, because two of our very best friends were early Prince Edward County adopters. They moved to Wellington, and when we used to go see them, there was maybe one or two wineries, maybe one or two restaurants, and the LCBO was in a honest to god trailer, like you walk. It was like a, like a portable that you would see for a school. And there was nothing going on, but it was still, you know, sandbanks National Park and some really beautiful topography, but now, oh my gosh. I mean, it is a tourism hot spot, so we went there, and we went through a really pretty house, and just had a great time. Had a big dance party, watched some terrible television, drank wine and beer and cider. Do you guys have a

Jann Arden  1:18  
very large group of friends? We do. We

Caitlin Green  1:20  
have several, actually. So we have a large group of friends out in Halifax, because that's my husband's like, core group from when he was growing up. We have my group in Toronto that I grew up with, which has now extended out to, like, other branches. We have a large group of friends who are predominantly gay. And, you know, then we each have, like, work friends and his friends from university, like we have, like, our social circles pretty big,

Jann Arden  1:44  
I would say. So how many people were you having this gathering with?

Caitlin Green  1:49  
There were eight of us, eight.

Jann Arden  1:52  
I don't know if I could personally do eight. Four is kind of my cap. And I know that seems really weird, but no, but eight people seems like a lot, like I feel a bit overwhelmed with that many people. That's fair. I can do it for a few hours, like having a dinner or something and going out, but even with, for example, going out for a group dinner for a cast thing, like when we were doing the Jan show, there would be 15 people at a long table in a restaurant, and I felt so apprehensive, you know, you couldn't really talk to any people at the end of the table. You ended up talking to the same people that you always talk to because I was sitting next to Leah and the producers that I work with. So the people at the other end of the table that I should have been sitting with, you know, some of the actors and actresses that I hadn't spent that much time with, I didn't speak to them at all. Like the dinner came and went and it was like a three and a half hour extravaganza with all this food on the table. And I always feel weird eating in front of people. I think I have a lot of no

Caitlin Green  2:48  
i i feel exactly the way you do about large group dinners at a restaurant. I don't enjoy them because, as you point out, whoever you're sat next to is essentially who you're having dinner with. And you feel like at some point you should all rotate seats, but then, of course, the restaurant doesn't want you to do that, and you can get a bit antsy as the night progresses. So I do prefer a larger group to be together over the course of a weekend, say, at a cottage, because you get so much quality time, especially when you have young children that you wouldn't ordinarily get, because you're having breakfast together, you're waking up, you're watching reality TV before you go to bed together, and like laughing at it. It's like a very like summer camp vibe that was had a pool so we could hang up by the pool, but like, this size, I will say, for our group of friends, is like, this is whittled down. I remember cottage trips into university, and again, some of my friends' parents had very large cottages where there would be groups of, oh, I want to say, 20 of us. And in high school there would be even more, like people were sleeping rolled up in rugs. Like, again, you're young and you've been drinking and you don't care. You don't care, but there were a lot of us, and the great thing about this rental home was that everyone had a great bedroom set up with an en suite, so you can at least retreat and do your own thing if you want. And if people wanted to go read a book or or go do their own type of excursion, you'd certainly be more than welcome to do that. But it was, it felt like it felt about right. We could mostly eat dinners like before on one side of the table, four on the other, everyone's having lots of laughs. It was, it was really nice and and that part of the province is a really great time to spend, like, late summer, early fall, too.

Jann Arden  4:13  
Any leaves changing?

Caitlin Green  4:15  
Yes, we saw a couple, and we were like, We commented on the odd red leaf tree. And we were like, f you tree. Like, stop doing that. Like it was one. Was just the weakest link in the forest. We weren't ready. It

Jann Arden  4:28  
just takes one. And then everyone goes, Oh, Phil's turning. Clara, have you seen Phil? He's turning. The ends are a bit yellow. Okay, we might as well go leave

Sarah Burke  4:37  
it to Jan to personify the tree leaves. They're like, your

Unknown Speaker  4:39  
hair looks great. Oh, my God, I'm going red.

Jann Arden  4:42  
I'm gonna go red too. I love the Oh, is it frosted Exactly? Hey, frosting used to be in my mom used to get her hair frosted, which is probably really in now. So it was just the tips. Mom would come back and she would have her brunette hair, and these kind of silvery, bluish. Tips. And I don't think the color turned out the way she wanted it to, but it was a thing like just the ends of your hair. I wouldn't mind dark tips on the end of my hair. Maybe I'll do that. I'm getting my hair done tomorrow. How

Unknown Speaker  5:11  
often do you get your hair done?

Jann Arden  5:12  
About every six weeks. Okay, so right now I've got a good, like, three quarters of an inch of roots, and so now I'm growing it back out again because I cut off all the crappy stuff, not, not a lot, but I'll just grow it a couple of inches. You know what? I just don't want to deal with hair. I want to be able to put it in a ponytail, though. I want to be able to take an elastic and get most of it in there and get it out of my face so work it in the yard, whatever. I don't always want to have to put a hat on. So this is about as short as I'll go. And you know what? I think women get criticized a lot. A lot of women do hit like, 5560, and they just cut their hair off. They're like, fuck it. I'm not gonna deal with my hair. And a lot of people will say, yeah, they gave up. They just gave into it. They just couldn't they didn't want to blow dry anymore. They didn't want to eat shit. And there is a thing about that, like, when I am even blow drying this length of hair, you guys, I'm like, I'm so over this. I wish I had a machine I could stick my head into. My hair would be done.

Caitlin Green  6:07  
Yeah, I used to have those, didn't they have the dryer chairs at like, the old school hair salons.

Jann Arden  6:11  
My mom had one. She had, yeah, a box. The big lid would come off, and then the arm would go and you'd sit at the kitchen table backwards, and you'd have the thing over your head and just have your curlers in and dry it. It was very zen.

Caitlin Green  6:25  
Oh, I mean, hair dryers are now very, very fast and efficient, so you can do it quickly, but it's a pain in the butt. And I also wonder if it's linked at all to the decrease in estrogen that women feel during menopause, perimenopause, because they call that essentially, your caregiver or your give a shit hormone. And so they say that a lot of women who are having children later in life are being tasked with this hormonal decrease in the very hormone that makes you prone to self sacrifice, which is clearly an integral part of being a parent, but also it's part of you saying, like, I'm still going to be part of this societal expectation that I have longer hair and that I curl it and I look a certain way. So I wonder if that's related, like you just start to lose that hormone and go, I don't care Absolutely Yeah, I bet I think

Jann Arden  7:09  
it's absolutely related, but I also know that something starts happening to your hair. So yeah, and that. So a couple of years ago, I literally woke up one day and I had done something that I found out much later was called shedding, and it is just a massive breakage that happens over a period of weeks, and you kind of notice it one morning, and I had all these little different length pieces, and I was really blue about it, and I cut a lot of my hair off, and I went to the hairdresser, and I thought, am I blow drying my hair too hot? Like, did I do this? And she goes, No, it's It's hormones, and it does happen. It's cyclical, and it'll come back. She said, those pieces obviously will go back. But she said you might want to supplement with folic acid, take some neonatal vitamins. You know, when you wander through Costco now you'll see, oh, I would say 567, products that are very geared towards hair and nail vitamins, so they're separate from your vitamin C's and all that, and it's hair and nails. So I haven't started taking that, but I do some serums on my head a couple of times a week, and my hair is in much better shape than it was a year ago, plus I'm on hormone replacement plus

Unknown Speaker  8:19  
that,

Jann Arden  8:20  
so it's slowly coming back, and it is a thing, but talk to me a year from now, and I might have, you know, the rock set, brush cut going on and platinum blonde, but I don't want to screw around with my hair a lot. I try and keep my makeup really simple. It's just less. I wish I could head out the door and not do anything, but I could probably do everything except for lipstick. I could probably go without eyeshadow or mascara. If I just had a nice tinted lipstick, I'd be happy because I could put that on my eyelids too and on my cheeks. You

Caitlin Green  8:51  
started whispering you went to like an ASMR music influencer,

Jann Arden  8:56  
yeah. Anyways, I don't know how we got onto that, but if you're if you are having hair issues. We'd love to hear from you. Like, I would actually really love to hear from women who are, as you go through the decades, are dealing with a whole different like, I look at old pictures you guys, and I'm Jake, oh my God, my hair would look so much thicker. And look at the curl in it, and look at the bounce, and it was down to my shoulder. And now I'm just like, I feel the same way.

Caitlin Green  9:20  
I feel the same way. I lost all my hair when I had will. After I had will, you all your hair falls out, and then your front pieces are these little stick upy bangs, and you can't they're not long enough to style or do anything. So I feel your pain. Imagine

Jann Arden  9:31  
your whole head, which is a shedding so I was looking at my whole head like these little pieces. But like I said, it's way better. And I have girlfriends that are little younger than me, a little older than me, that are really dealing with thin, thin, thin hair and not knowing what the hell to do about it. So on goes the hat, or up goes the do. But you know what? I think you just have to lean into it and not worry about it. There's a lot of bigger issues in the world. So I try and be easy on myself. And and not dwell on stuff like that. I really do anyway. Moving on chapel Rowan and Caitlin, you've got me onto chapel Rowan. She posted something on Instagram. It was like a four page slider of a very long kind of a diatribe about, listen, even though we're famous people, and, you know, I've put myself out there, it doesn't give you license. I'm absolutely just paraphrasing here. It doesn't give people license to come up to me, ask for hubs, get us hugs, get a selfie. You know, want me to sign an autograph, get in my space, interrupt me when I'm eating dinner. Once again, paraphrasing so she went into this, this quite long speech about how, you know, she loves her fans, and she's worked very hard the last decade for her career, and she went on and on, and then she said, Love you guys, but please respect my space. So thoughts about that? I have my thoughts, but I'd love to hear yours,

Caitlin Green  10:49  
Sarah, what do you think?

Sarah Burke  10:51  
I mean, it's completely licensed, and I think, you know, we've talked about it so many times like there's a certain expectation of you being in the spotlight. Most artists are prepared for that when they're going into it, unless you have a case where someone's really young and it happens really fast, but yeah, it doesn't give people the permission to treat you in a different way. You are a human and you deserve your privacy. You deserve your moment to eat whatever you're eating. You deserve, you know, your off days, just like we all have. And yeah, I think that it was completely warranted. Her rant, yeah,

Caitlin Green  11:26  
I'm with chapel because I consider myself to be a very big fan of hers and a very big fan of other artists, and I love that they put things out there and they share their art, or they share their personal life. But, you know, I don't feel entitled to cross their boundaries. And if any artist that I was a fan of put out a statement like this, I think to myself, Man, they must be getting some creeps coming up to them, crossing their boundaries and making them feel unsafe, especially as a woman. So I do think she's likely experienced this meteoric rise to fame, and it would be alongside some people who are crossing boundaries with her. And fan admiration doesn't always come in normal ways. I mean, you look at last summer, a true trend that was happening was people were throwing things at artists when they were on stage BB, rexa got injured. Someone threw something at Harry Styles, and he nearly got hit by it. It happened over and over again, and this was at their own shows with their fans, and it was just this kind of unhinged, poorly socialized behavior. And I think that, you know, it doesn't mean that you don't like your fans or you don't appreciate them. It just means like, Hey, I am feeling unsafe because these incidents have happened, and maybe you all need to take, like, a step back and how you engage with me, because it's making me uncomfortable. You know, not everyone's going to like to hear it, but I kind of agree with her. And like you, think about loss of life like again, remember that gal that was on her story has resurfaced in light of this chapel Roan issue, but her name was Christina Grimmie, or grimy, I think, or Grimmie, she won the voice, or she was a contestant on The Voice, and then she became this big YouTube act, and she was performing at, I believe it was a shopping center, stabbed her, a super fan came up and shot her and killed her, and like, this was years ago, and this is obviously became a big handgun issue in the States. But again, there are stalkers. There are legit celebrity stalkers that scale fences, that go through security, that make people feel unsafe. And I think that that is, you know, a worst case scenario, reality that a lot of celebs have to deal with. And so you're hedging against that level of craziness. Well, I mean, yeah, people get

Jann Arden  13:24  
fixated on, on with, you know, with famous people, rich people, they get fixated on rich people. So rich people kind of are experiencing the type of fame that celebrities do, you know, just because they're wealthy. But I've also heard you say, Caitlin, over the years that people are deserving of. You are in the public life, and I've heard you say this several times. You're in the public life. You chose this. You're an artist, and that is just part and parcel of what you need to deal with so and I know you love chapel, but you know, I'm just gonna play the devil's advocate. You. You try so hard to have success. Now with success, and what success means to people, is to be known, is to have your music go as far out there as it possibly can. Is to be on television, is to have a lot of fans, is to have sold out shows. And with that comes, you know, all these other things that maybe aren't considered perks. They seem like perks at the time you want it when you want it, and you don't want it when you don't want it. And it doesn't work that way. So speak to that because I have heard

Caitlin Green  14:28  
someone says they don't want to be famous, or we no longer care to be in the spotlight, or don't like to be part of, like, a certain situation. I'm trying to imagine, like, those past instances what they were, but I know, like, for me immediately, like Harry and Meghan do kind of come to mind where they'll say, like, we really want to be removed from the spotlight, but then, like, decide to live at Tyler Perry's House in LA when someone says something, and then they do something that's very different from what they're saying, that's when I feel a little bit like, well, you're not like, you're kind of saying enough's enough, but you're also still wanting, like, that sort. Attention. So I don't have the same issue with what Chappell has stated, because she kind of said, I'm specifically talking about predatory behavior disguised as super fan behavior that has become normalized because of the way women who are well known have been treated in the past, like the stuff that happens with Brittany and stalkers and all that. So I do think, like, do fans have a right to have physical access to you, like, no, not that you're gonna feel unsafe. Can you blame people for being interested? Can you blame people for wanting to know more about your life? Can you blame, you know, a paparazzi for following you if you live in LA like, not really like, because you could choose to then go the Demi Moore, Bruce route and move to Wyoming, or you can, like, I think of what's her name, Michelle Williams, who moved to, like, upstate New York. Like, there are ways that you can remove yourself from a situation that you feel unsafe about. If chapel don't put the statement out, and then you see her going for lunch at like, the ivy and, like, hanging out with the Kardashians and stuff, you're gonna lose me. But if she's just doing her performances, and she's saying, I'm being approached when I'm in moments of privacy like that, to me, feels different. Well, keep in

Jann Arden  16:06  
mind that the word fan comes from fanatic, and it is, you know, being a fan. I don't know where people lost the plot on what a fan is. I think I'm an admirer of a lot of people. I don't think I would ever walk up to them in a in a mall, or when they were certainly not when they were eating like that's I'm always pretty open if someone comes up to me. And it's not often. I'm certainly not and nor have I ever been, yeah, mostly at Winners or I'm in Costco. It's pretty hard to, you know, people are pretty well behaved in there. But I just Yeah, I think fame has teeth, and I don't think her statement is going to have any impact on anything. The people that behave that way will never hear it. They will never understand it. They will never process it. They don't think that way because they're not right. Someone who is right in the head. And I mean, this wouldn't behave in those ways. It's true, you use your common sense. So if you are a person with your faculties and your wits about you, you're not going to spot somebody in a restaurant and Beeline it over to them. You will actually have something in your body that stops you from doing that. That I do know if you break through that whole idea and come up to me or anybody else, I know that you're just you don't you're not showing any self control and caveat here, please come up to me anytime. And I mean that if you see me somewhere, don't ever hesitate to say, hello. I don't mind it at all. I'm not chaperone, I'm not fucking Billy Idol, I'm not Celine Dion. I'm nobody. I'm Jan from Calgary. No, and I mean that earnestly, and people know that about me. It doesn't matter. I am an artist, I sing, I do what I do. I don't have any gimmicks. I don't have any I have nothing that there's no persona that I embark on. I really I grew up in the Joni Mitchell school, in the Sean Colvin school and the Carly Simon and Janice Ian, where 70s girls stood there and played their music. It's much different now, and that should be this is a whole new way of looking at music and how women are performing. But where I come from, we were just artists. We just wrote songs and did them. We didn't fall from the ceiling on a gurney with wings and clear plastic pants with mirror balls attached to our kneecaps. I was gonna say something else, but I changed my mind. You've brought

Sarah Burke  18:37  
up Billie Eilish a few times when we talk about, like, just how much you kind of respect how she carries herself, in many ways. And I'm thinking about fame and Billie Eilish in that sense. And what is it that you know, for someone who's in a different generation of the fame that you respect and love

Jann Arden  18:53  
Billie Eilish is these women are very much themselves, and I admire that to the ends of the world, the world needs art, and it needs expression, and women, in particular, who are admonished constantly for, you know, if you wear that you're inviting that kind of behavior, if you say that you're inviting that kind of behavior, if you behave a certain way, you're inviting that kind of behavior. That's not true. And I think what, what Chapel was, you know, saying in in a roundabout way, is, it doesn't matter what I do or how I dress or what I say or how I perform, it is not an invitation for you to steal from my personage. It is not an invitation for you to sexualize me or try and grab me when I'm going by you. And I'll give you an example, because I thought of this last night when Caitlin sent me the story. You know, you see your favorite dentist out at, you know, a keg. He's a great dentist. He really knows his thing. He gives you great drugs. You never feel it when he does you root canal, it's fantastic. You love this guy. I don't think you know his profession warrants a. And I know this is a weird example, but you can't go up to the guy and, you know, say, Oh my God, my sister really needs a molar. Can you do something for right now? She needs, like, it just doesn't happen. It only happens in in music and in the arts. You wouldn't do that to other people. Why would I do that to my dentist? Well, why would you do that to a singer that you don't know? Like, she said, another interesting thing too. As much as I show you, as much as I put this out there, you don't know who I am. You don't know what I do. You know with my girlfriends, you know that we like to go and walk down the beach and have a cooler and laugh and watch shows and look at our phones and all the things that normal people want to do, but people make the assumption that someone in the arts, or someone like her, that is this massive, like she has just skyrocketed in the last 10 months, six months, and it is hard for anyone to get their head around that, yeah, and it may be short lived. We don't know how these cycles work. People are fickle. Women in particular, young women move on. I mean, Taylor Swift is such an anomaly. But you know, Billie Eilish has managed to stay in there and keep going this last 567, years, so we'll see,

Caitlin Green  21:16  
yeah, I mean, and like Taylor Swift is, like is, you'll see photos, and I'm sure videos that are proved that, like, when someone approaches you in the right way, or maybe at the right time, or or whatever, that it could be a nice moment for you, right? I mean, Conan O'Brien, obviously very different than chapel Roan, but he says he's like, I'm sick. Ask anyone who's with me, like, I want my fans to come up and come talk to me, and like, they wind up backing away from me, because, like, he he likes the engagement, but so it just, I think it also depends on the approach. Like, I have to try to imagine, like, okay, randomly I spot chapel Rowan or Rihanna or someone like, walking down the street, like, I'm gonna freak out. I don't know that I would have enough balls to ever say anything to them. I have friends who I think would try. I think I would be too embarrassed, and I didn't, wouldn't want to scare them. But like, I would want to like I would. So

Jann Arden  22:03  
it's knowing what you know, knowing what you know, what I know she wrote exactly,

Caitlin Green  22:07  
knowing what she wrote. Now I wouldn't think to like, run up like, but it just really, it depends. So like, I kind of, I get why she wrote it. And I agree with you, though that many of the people who don't have those boundaries, or already crossing them. It may not make it through to them, but like, it might make it through to someone like me who would have previous What if I saw in New York? Is it gonna make any difference? And now I'm like, oh, shoot, she doesn't want me to yell, jab all at her. Like she wouldn't want me to yell, like, pink

Jann Arden  22:33  
pony club, and she doesn't want Kaylee. She doesn't want to be called Kaylee.

Caitlin Green  22:36  
She said, don't call me Kaylee. Oh, like her government name.

Jann Arden  22:40  
Don't call me Kaylee. That was another statement she made in that which I thought was interesting, because that's her real life. So her made up life, and that's what it is. So I, I don't have a made up life, yeah, I don't have a pseudonym. I don't have a made up life. I am the same person sitting here than I am when I go do a charity thing or when I'm on tour, I'm the same person, so I don't have to do that, but that's a choice I made as an artist. I wouldn't even have the wherewithal. Who would I be? I don't know. It's interesting anyway. It is very interesting, and it is certainly not a problem that's indigenous to her. It's it's across the board. And I always she is very young, you know, I look at her and I'm like, my god, you're very young. You're just learning how to be a person. But it's young. I know it's true.

Caitlin Green  23:30  
That's what I'm saying. Like, you have the clarity of mind where you're like, Okay, you can put out this statement, but the people who are like, kind of like, freaks about it. It's not going to get through to them anyways. But that's something that comes with, like, age, you know,

Jann Arden  23:42  
and she's had so much blowback to it, you know, she's had somebody push back. Yes, it's like, you chose this, you went into it. So I think it was about half and half, you know, people supported that.

Caitlin Green  23:52  
And then other people who are, like, competitive about how their favorite artist may they believe their album release isn't doing as well, because chapel and Charlie have taken over the summer Charlie xiax and her album, and so I see a lot of the like Stan accounts are the ones who are taking issue with what she said, because they're like Ariana Grande would never say this about her fans. Like Beyonce would never say this about her fans. So it is also a fan culture thing. Oh,

Jann Arden  24:23  
here's another kind of a mental health thing, where people are at the brink of what they can handle. So we're going to kind of stay on that highway, this mental health highway, for a moment. You're the only parent here. Sarah and I don't have children that we know of,

Caitlin Green  24:39  
that we know of secretly, birth month, well, I

Jann Arden  24:44  
did wake up with some discomfort in Alaska, in Alaska several years ago, but we won't talk about that. So tell me about what's going on. The Surgeon General has issued some kind of a statement. So tell me about that. The

Caitlin Green  24:55  
US Surgeon General issued a health warning for parents as their faith. Experiencing mental health struggles right now, so saying that parents are dealing with, quote, silent struggles as they raise their children, and the combination of caring for their kids working longer hours, leading to isolation, increased stress and feelings of isolation. So this was from a 2023 psychology from the American Psychology Association, and so they found that nearly half of parents say they feel overwhelmed most days compared to just people who don't have children. Of course, they say this top stressors right now that are sort of plaguing parents, mental health, our cost of living, but also the impact of social media, the rise in gun violence, that's a very us specific problem, and in this advisory was saying that parents need better mental health support because they're they're letting their mental health go untreated because they don't even have the hours in the day or the bandwidth to solve these problems. And now they're pointing out that, you know, a whole generation of parents who are burnt out and depressed and anxious are obviously going to pass some of this trauma along to their children. So he wants more government resources and support systems to help parents manage their stress. And a huge sticking point, well, the upcoming US election, I know that you know. So what had happened was, this is, again, this is in the US, and we have child tax credits here in Canada, but in the US, during the pandemic, they issued a one time tax credit to parents that was so substantial that it pulled, it actually pulled children out of poverty, like they saw childhood poverty decline in the US when this one time payment happened and it pulled children, you know, helping them have food before they go to school, you know, all the things that they know is just going to be very important to keeping them regulated and on the right track. And then, of course, the second that this tax credit ended, childhood poverty rates go right back to where they were before. So now, in her her platform, Kamala Harris, is saying that I want to make the I want to bring this tax credit back for the underprivileged families of the US, and I want to keep it there. It's not just going to be this one time payout for the pandemic, because we had this really cool exercise where the government found this money once because of the crisis of the pandemic, and look what it did to child poverty rates. Look what it did to children having enough food when they go to school. So like, let's make sure that we we do that again and we keep it going. And she also wants to create a $6,000 one time payout to parents in their first year of having children, which she said, you know, said, is typically the hardest year on on both parents emotionally, and then the startup costs associated with that first year of parenting is a lot. So there are things you can do, because this is not new information. And I'm sure every parent around the world, in every country, to the degree that they're financially, you know, upwardly mobile, and they have some support in place, will experience this. So

Jann Arden  27:44  
what did i What did our parents do? Like, I always, I always go back to, like, all the car seat stuff and the rules and regulations and how people are strapped in. You have to have certain kind of cribs with certain kind of bars and and you're not supposed to put kids in cribs now with blankets. You're supposed to put them in, zip them in these little bags, these little sleeping bags that they zip into, like I get all that stuff. How did we survive? How did our parents survive, with

Caitlin Green  28:06  
much higher mortality rates for children in traffic accidents, and also with a higher rate of sudden infant death syndrome? Like things were worse with

Jann Arden  28:13  
stuff like this, with mental health, with parents, even then, just what people had to endure, and they had much larger families back then too, generally, because contraception wasn't a thing, I don't think people had women certainly didn't have the kind of health care with abortion or or the morning after pill or anything like that. They literally had 1213, 1415, kids. Yeah, but I'm just wondering, we don't hear a lot about the mental health issues of parents back then, you know, like whenever I heard my grandmother talk about it, and she was one of 17 children, she said, well, Mother, we had to look after each other. The older girls just have to do more things. But I remember asking my grandma about anxiety, like, did you ever have anxiety? She goes, we didn't even know what that was. We never we didn't know what that was we didn't have time to think about ourselves in terms of

Caitlin Green  29:05  
how we were feeling all the time. Yeah. I mean, they also couldn't own a home,

Jann Arden  29:08  
no, but I understand those things, but I things were just objectively

Caitlin Green  29:12  
much worse for women, mothers and families. They were different.

Jann Arden  29:15  
They were much worse, but I think people were much more resilient and a lot stronger than they are now, like, I feel like we're creating people that, you know, there's so much anxiety with young kids in school now, like, to the point where I'm just thinking, what are we doing socially? And I know there's social media, I know there's billions of more people on the planet, and schools aren't like 20 kids in a country school. They're 2500 people, but there's so much more of this breakdown with young people, and I'm just the whole the whole parenting thing. Yeah, it's tough, but you said it Caitlin. It's so much easier. Now there's so much more things in place. I would think that parents now would have way more. Have abilities to cope and do things than they did 40 years ago. And you just said it, it's much different now for people, I think it's much more I think it's

Caitlin Green  30:07  
much better. I think it's a much more equitable circumstance for many women to have children. I think that the decreasing birth rates in areas of the world that have, you know, higher rates of education and autonomy for women should go to show everyone that, like, not every woman feels capable to have a child, like, even if they want to. I know lots of women who are just saying, you know, financially support wise from family support wise in the workplace. Like we also have direct evidence and statistical studies to show that having children negatively, still negatively impacts every single woman's career, and not men. So there are a lot of factors here, and ultimately, people governments still want women to have children. They still want you to create taxpayers. So they have to create an environment that is suitable for women to feel supported in doing that. And I think that's why they're putting out these mental health studies and looking into why people and parents feel so stressed out because they have less money than they used to. That's just a fact. Everything's more expensive. Like, people aren't making more money. Life is presently harder than it was financially years ago. Houses way more expensive. Things are harder in many ways, are they easier in other ways too? Sure? Like, there's a lot of progress in research,

Jann Arden  31:21  
I guess that's what I mean. Like you were talking about things being so much easier. But are they easier? There's

Caitlin Green  31:28  
problems of yesterday and there's there's problems of today. I think the decline in birth rates is telling governments very loudly, you are not creating a situation where people want to have children and your replacement rate is now such that you are going to need to rely on a serious influx of immigration in order to maintain the status quo of your society. Like no one wants to have kids anymore. They or they feel like they can't do most of your friends have children. Yes. But again, if you think of a rate of replacement being what like 2.2 or 2.4 you know, I'm I have one, like, I have one living child, but we have, like, the so many friends who are going to have only children, or will have two, very, very few have three and Jan, like your, you know, parents like my dad is from a family of eight. My mom was from a family of 10.

Jann Arden  32:16  
My mom was two. So, you know her, like her mother was one of 17. Yeah, she had two kids. She said to my mom, there's no fucking way. And she wasn't gonna, she wasn't even gonna have my mother. She had my mom's brother, and she's like, that's good. And that just she said she couldn't keep she did everything in the world to keep herself from getting pregnant. But it's 1934, and sorry, this is just how it goes. Yeah, and

Caitlin Green  32:38  
I think also, too, like, we've done some good stuff in Canada. We know the rollout of the subsidy for daycares has actually meant that women are returning to work and can stay there. I mean, the way they've reduced daycare costs, again, not fraught, not like it isn't fraught with issues, but that's really helped, that rollout can happen in many places, to help take the stress off of parents and families. The other thing is, back in the day, we just started talking about therapy. Now nobody talked about this before. People probably had schizophrenia that was going untreated, and nobody knew, like, nobody knew what borderline personality disorder. Well,

Jann Arden  33:11  
that's all I'm saying, is, my grandma said that we didn't, didn't talk about it. I'm not saying it didn't exist. Yeah, exactly. They just didn't have time. There was no there was no box in which you sat with another person and discussed, I'm feeling anxious. They didn't even know what

Caitlin Green  33:25  
the fuck that was. Survival mode. We went to war. They're washing rags out

Jann Arden  33:29  
in the sink for their periods. They just don't have time to worry about

Caitlin Green  33:32  
being Can you imagine? Like, no.

Jann Arden  33:34  
I mean, boil them on a stove. Like, boil them to get Yes, look and you

Caitlin Green  33:41  
have no other choice. That's the thing you're doing it because you have no other choice. And you know, through their kind of moving things up the ladder for all of us, we're in constantly better standing. And I think that's sort of what our generation now wants to take on, is to say, Okay, look at we've done X, Y and Z things to make day to day life better for women and for families and all this, but let's acknowledge the fact that people also feel like they're on the brink of a nervous breakdown. So what can we do to help those situations if we're the government? Well, maybe give everyone six grand for the first year of their you know, having kids in the US, in the US, they should be giving you proper maternity leave. They don't do that. Aren't they paid in China for having children? They might be now. They're doing it many places like they're starting to

Jann Arden  34:23  
do it. All I know is, at the end of the day, my question going out to you listeners is, Are people less resilient in this modern time than they were 50 years ago? Maybe it's just an illusion of that which Caitlin you have aptly described, because, yeah, there was infant mortality was way higher. Shit was happening. People were the wheels were falling off the bus, and nobody knew. But I'm just wondering. I feel like my mom and dad were just so my dad was an asshole, but, you know, there was no. Room to for us to fuck around or misbehave in a restaurant. My God, we would have been held up by a leg and dangled over the side of a building like we just we never behaved in what you see now going on out there.

Caitlin Green  35:14  
I guess my counterpoint is, is that ideal, like, is that a goal? Is that, yeah, it's

Jann Arden  35:19  
not okay. It's not a goal at all, but it just was a matter of how you made your way through the world. It was terrible. I wish I would have had a different kind of father. My mother was great. I

Sarah Burke  35:30  
just pulled up some of the payments that are out there. Russia began offering a one time sum of $7,000 to families with more than two kids. Italy and Greece have been experimenting with a per child baby bonus. I don't know the cost of that. In 2019 Hungary introduced a loan of $30,000 to newlyweds. And then here's Hong Kong, to boost efforts to encourage childbirth, the government provides a one time cash allowance of $20,000 as financial incentive.

Caitlin Green  35:58  
I just I think that this is, it's also a whole like, political world too, because, like, Elon Musk has talked a lot about how our birth rates are not going to support, like, the future growth of civilization. And, I mean, it's, it's become this weird talking point in far right and left corners of the world, there are, like, pro natalists Now, who are very highly educated people that are telling everyone it's your duty to have eight kids. Like, so this is a real thing. Like this is a real thing because we are in population decline in many places at the world, I sent

Jann Arden  36:26  
you that article a few days ago, Caitlin, about the group of people that are like exterminish people. They just think that we need to stop procreating, stop having children, and literally phase ourselves out. The

Caitlin Green  36:40  
photo of the two examples that they gave of people who were sort of espousing these ideals, was was very on the nose. I was like, this is exactly who I would expect if I could draw someone who wanted us all to go extinct. And again, it just this is because it's an issue of our time. As we see birth rates decrease and we also are increasing the conversation around mental health. So like, I'm so not surprised this is happening, but I was it's also because the Surgeon General is releasing this statement around an election where the number of children you have has been talked about widely on the left and right. This is, like, a very us issue right now.

Jann Arden  37:14  
Yeah, it just was really interesting to me, and I don't know how I feel about, you know, an alert going out that parents are really, really stressed out. I have no right to even speak to this, and I mean that I don't have children. I was a child, but I can't speak to what parents are going through. I can barely, most days, look after myself, look after my dog, look after my own, you know, just get make my way through life. Yeah, I do not know how people raise a human and I mean that it's hard, and if you're out there doing it, it's got to be beyond hard. And then you add single parent, you add on a single parent that doesn't have really any extended family, like there's so much of that stuff out there. So I hope you guys do get some money to help you, because too it makes a difference, and you see it statistically, kids have lunches. All of a sudden they got a book on their hand and shoes on their feet. So anyway, moving on. Thank God Caitlin has sent me some cool animal news.

As you know, a few months ago, I was able to narrate secrets of the whales, which was a fantastic experience with the Calgary symphony, conducted by Maestro Anthony. He was just amazing. And I did a live narration to five whale families that they followed for like four or five years National Geographic, and watched how they hunted, how they raised each other, speaking of families and parents and all the challenges that they face. But yeah, this story, I thought was really interesting. Humpback whales make use of tools to hunt in a whole unique approach. So I knew a little bit about something called bubble netting, fishing that humpback whales would circle around and release these bubbles, forcing fish into the middle where they were easily gobbled up. But it goes further now they're even finding out more stuff about what they do. So I thought this was really cool. I'm kind of happy. It's

Caitlin Green  39:14  
very happy. It's very cool. And I love like that gig that you did with National Geographic sounds like one of the coolest partnerships you could ever imagine having, because it's just this stuff is so right up my alley. And National Geographic is just such a great publication forever. But yeah, they say that they this study of Wales. It was done near Alaska. It says that they, when they blow these bubbles, they're so precise that they can control the depth of this bubble net and how much space they have between all these little bubbles. Stop it. It's crazy. Leave whales alone, like they're geniuses down there. Look, look what they're doing. This is a such a a crazy thing to imagine, and the ingenuity that they're that they're using. They're. Brilliant. Yeah, they are. They really

Jann Arden  40:01  
are just watching the show night after night and doing this narration like I literally saw the show eight times, every time, every time it went by. And this bubble fishing thing in particular, I couldn't get my head around how they taught a young four or five, six month old whale, like they weren't quite ready. They had to stand and watch for a long, long time. Then they finally got included, like you just see them circling the outside, kind of watching their grandmother and their mothers

Caitlin Green  40:28  
do. And then they were like, in bubble net training,

Jann Arden  40:31  
yeah, and they were training and them getting it wrong to see the audience collectively, you know, 2500 people start giggling because the narration is fun, because I'm going, but not quite yet. It's not quite right yet. And then the audience would be like, because they're bubbles, would be like, blue. Be like, one bubble that came up, and the whale would be kind of like, was that it? You're like, No, that was not it. And then all of a sudden you'd see Bloop, bloop, bloop. And there's like, No, we're still and then all of a sudden you see these circles, this beautiful spiral pattern of these little bubbles that come up. And they were very symmetrical, like in their length, but the stuff that I learned about them, I'll never forget. And then now you imagine something like marine land or something going in with these massive ships, and they literally steal one or two members of a pod of whales, the catastrophic chain reaction of removing a matriarch, a patriarch, someone who's a teacher leader. They could be removing the only person that knows how to hunt in a certain period, they could be removing the only person that knows the migration patterns, like the things that I learned were so profoundly disturbing. Watch me turn a really happy story into this mess where we're going, but I'm just saying we have to be more respectful of the intelligence of living things, and so that will has something to aspire to, and National Geographic magazines to flip through and and read about these animals. Every day on Instagram, somebody is posting something about here are five animals you will not see in the next 15 years. And I'm like, What is going on? I think I

Caitlin Green  42:19  
mentioned it on this podcast, but I went to Marineland and asked to leave. Like, you know, I went when you know, your parents don't really know any better. Everyone's taking their kids to Marineland. I think we had family and visiting from out of town, so we go. And I saw this. I know I'd seen Free Willy. I saw FernGully, the last rainforest. Like I was like, I knew what was up. And I saw the little like, sad fin I saw the state of the pool that they had the seals in, which was indoors and like, dark. And I was like, this is a bummer. And, you know, places like that should be 1,000% closed down. They have been around for way too long. It's really, really outdated, and it is not at all a modern approach to entertainment. So, yeah, I kind of, I don't, I don't like it scared me as a kid. Scares me now.

Jann Arden  43:02  
Yeah, listen, some fun things before I let you guys go. And this is another really cool Caitlyn thing. It was like, What's something you tried once and instantly knew it wasn't for you? Like, I don't even know where to begin. Caitlin, you you start

Caitlin Green  43:19  
with this. Okay, well, it was from Reddit. There's

Jann Arden  43:21  
a whole bunch of responses, but I don't want to do those yet, like, I want to hear yours, and then we'll read what some of the responses were. Something you did once and instantly regretted it. And Marineland was fucking one of them, 1,000%

Caitlin Green  43:33  
get me out of here. Get me out of here. Was my immediate response to Marineland. I did not enjoy it. I feel the same way about African lion Safari. I knew these places were like dark, coated like they were, just this wasn't for me. There was some there was sadness. There was a pervasive sadness amongst the animals that you were looking at. So I didn't like it. And so some of the other ones on this list of responses, one of them that really clicked with me was living with roommates. I'm not a roommate. Person. Never had

Jann Arden  43:58  
one. I've never had a roommate. Can't do it. So how did you know that? Because

Caitlin Green  44:02  
I lived with them, and I'm sure they didn't like living with me. So I'm not saying that like, this isn't, you know, this isn't me being like, I have nightmare roommates. It's like, I just, I want my alone time. I want I don't want to see someone in the kitchen or the bathroom all the time. I want to just have a day where I can be quiet. I just, I don't want to have a house meeting ever in my life. It's not for me. Sarah's making a face at House meeting. How old were you when you had House meetings? Like, when we were in, like, University House

Sarah Burke  44:29  
meeting for what, like, you're not doing the dishes, like, like,

Caitlin Green  44:33  
sort of those things. And also, like, but about, like, a change in rent, or like, something in the house was broken, or, like, you know,

Jann Arden  44:40  
don't touch stuff in the fridge. Don't, don't

Caitlin Green  44:43  
eat my two bite brownies, like, that type of thing. Was like, coming up and I was like, I don't need a house meeting about this. Like, the person who doesn't like what you're doing, just talk to the person who's doing the thing you don't like. Like, just go face to face. But it was just, I don't know, I think it was a personality mismatch in many ways.

Jann Arden  44:58  
I couldn't do roommates. Yes, okay. Sarah, instantly regretted something you've tried that you instantly regretted. Maybe a food maybe a boyfriend, maybe a sex possession, maybe a sporting event. Caitlin

Sarah Burke  45:10  
just wants to know about my sexual podcast conference

Caitlin Green  45:14  
last week. Podcast conference conquests. We'll

Sarah Burke  45:17  
wrap with a moment on that, because I want to, I want to just tell you about editing. You guys, editing you guys, but I am afraid of heights, and you know, like, I would never do the like CN Tower walk or anything like that. Like that is not for me. So skiing on, like I'm capable, athletically, of skiing down harder hills, like I think you would call them the Blue Hills, the black triangles. But I'm happy on the kitty Hill. That's what I'm gonna say. I don't like that feeling.

Jann Arden  45:49  
So you have been at the top of a mountain going, fuck, I have taken what have I done? Walked down and I haven't. Oh, you slide on your haven't skied in 45 years. So just know that I took my skis off and walked and slid down on my bum. What about you? Jen, well, I'm gonna say right now one of the Reddit responders was Tinder, or online dating. And I'm gonna say right now my experience with Raya, I was off of there so fast, like soon as I got my first group of people, which was, and I told you how weird it was. It was Feist. It was Chelsea Handler, the guy from Stranger Things, the sheriff and and Drew Barrymore, like, What the fuck. And I had put down men, men and women. But I thought, No, this algorithm is so insane. I'm so I was out of there. So I did regret that I'm like, and it was four or five hours to fill out the forms, and my friend Danny, kind like, just talked me into doing it. And anyway, so that was that. But some of these are living with roommates, hanging with co workers outside of work really made me laugh, like, but somebody regretted that instantly, like, right away, marriage,

Caitlin Green  47:01  
yeah, oysters, oysters.

Sarah Burke  47:06  
I love how oysters and marriage are awesome cigarettes,

Jann Arden  47:08  
and I love this one. This is so for you, Lisa. Lisa almond, if you're listening, I once tried to be a morning person. We both agreed it wasn't going to work out.

Sarah Burke  47:20  
I I've tried that so many times. I'm still working on it. Well,

Jann Arden  47:23  
listen, we want to wrap things up with Sarah talking about her conference experience, because, as you know, she went to a sexy podcast conference. Well, we were talking about hookups at conferences and and the stuff that going on. And Sarah had said, No, I got my I was okay. I had a little, you know, trist with a fellow before I went down there. So you didn't you say that, yes, was that for us, or was that just,

Sarah Burke  47:49  
well, now it's for everyone, not even our Patreon, Jan. But you went

Jann Arden  47:52  
down, you had, you had a nice little an evening with a fellow. But now, so tell us about this,

Sarah Burke  47:58  
before the before the conference, yes, and I'll tell you about my my latest date in patriots. Okay, we'll put that. We'll put we'll put that over there. Okay, so I just wanted to say before I read some listener comments in response to your episode last week, guys, which I did prepare, because we didn't have a lot of voice notes.

Jann Arden  48:14  
What about our editing, editing our last week? So I

Sarah Burke  48:17  
log in, I download the files like before I'm getting on the air airplane. I'm someone who loves crushing out a task, as long as I'm not like too tired that I need a nap. I love being able to just get something out of the way on the airplane, because you're literally stuck in your seat and you can't do anything. So okay, got my files downloaded on the internet at the hotel. I got actually new noise canceling headphones for the airplane so that I could stop hearing other people's conversations, which was fantastic. So I'm I'm like, isolated with you two in my headphones, and like, the first 10 minutes of the podcast is like, all the possibilities of hookups, and I am laughing out loud with my noise canceling headphones. So I don't even know that other people are noticing that I'm laughing out loud at you guys. Someone was like, oh, must be funny. What you're editing? So I took off the one ear to be like, Sorry, what? And then I realized I had been reacting out loud, but I was killing myself laughing. Yeah, they're

Caitlin Green  49:10  
calling you guys all horn. You're welcome. You're welcome.

Sarah Burke  49:15  
And lots of learnings that we will talk about throughout the next few months and obviously share some things with our listeners as we continue to change and grow the podcast. But you know, even like one really big topic at the conference, so Patreon, as you know, we do bonus content on there. There's going to be a thing coming this fall where if you download the Patreon app to support us through, like your iPhone, through the App Store, through Apple, then Apple gets 30% instead of the creators. We don't like that, so we're going to make sure that we're communicating with you how to support us without going through Apple, which is, you know, on the web browser, because, yeah, it's just, it's really interesting. Why does

Caitlin Green  49:56  
I want a piece of our creative pie? It's small enough. Yes, let us have it

Sarah Burke  50:00  
anyway. That's that listener questions and comments from your last episode. I just want to share a few and pick up the voice notes again on the website if you have questions or comments on today's show. But so this is on the nail salon. Okay, so when we posted a clip, the question was, if you were at the nail salon like Caitlyn was, and someone was like talking so loud and taking over the environment, would you say something to them? And Nicole said, such poor etiquette. This is on Facebook. Maybe she double booked herself and didn't want to get charged for no show at the salon. We really don't know about those choices. Sounds like a frantic day. Can we though give her grace and not imply that she's abnormal? I can say I have had some pretty shit show days out in public, and I will beat myself up for days afterwards about it. I would be crushed to hear myself being made fun of like this. But on the other side of things, Sheila's like, oh my god, I would definitely say what the fuck to that lady. And we got some Twitter responses about the Okay, who is a stormy Sam says, because of my work, I zone out of other people's conversations, mostly, if they wanted to know their personal business, they would tell me, because that

Caitlin Green  51:11  
was when Jan was talking about how she'll have someone walking around near her with AirPods in and she'll think that they're talking to her, but they're not. They're talking to whoever's on the AirPods, and it confuses her all the time. I

Sarah Burke  51:23  
answer all the time. And Russ Richards, Oh, what did Russ say? Hell yeah, I would have told him to shut the hell up and take it elsewhere. And then last on the AI guy that you guys were talking about that was running for mayor, yes, so Maddie actually did the little homework for us about checking in on it. The AI guy got 327 votes. The mayor Patrick Miller got 6000 and change votes. Humans won. Listen, that's our wrap up on comments for the week. Voice, notice we like

Jann Arden  51:54  
them before you get to your date. Don't we have, like, big announcements right now about, do you want

Sarah Burke  51:59  
me give you a drum roll? We have a drum please do let me give you a drum roll.

Jann Arden  52:08  
So our live event is going on sale. Sarah, you've got the details in front of you, so I'm going to hand it over to you. I will say the date is October the first. It's a Tuesday. It's in Toronto. Sarah, go. So

Sarah Burke  52:20  
it's going to be at 7:30pm tickets will go on sale to the public in one week. We release this podcast episode on Friday. So if you are listening on release date, that means on sale to the public Friday, September 6, one week today, at 10am how you're going to find out about the details? You're going to make sure you're subscribed to the Jan Arden podcast newsletter@janardinpod.com and we will also support that with posts on social. If you're watching our socials, you know that we're at Jan Arden pod across all the platforms. And now here's another reason to join our Patreon before then. Because Does anyone want to give away a Patreon detail?

Jann Arden  52:56  
I would like to give away this Patreon detail, and it's you are going to be first in line for the 125 tickets that are going to be on sale. Of course, we are saving some for people who are not Patreon members, but if you want to be in the first few rows, you need to be a Patreon member, preferred seating. Preferred seating. You're going to get a link on Patreon that gives you all the details for the event to go and buy your tickets, and you're also going to get $5 off your ticket, which basically covers your Patreon fee for a whole month. So it's a win, win, win, win.

Caitlin Green  53:31  
Yeah. So it'll be rolled out with like, a code. You'll get a promo code for all of our Patreon members, and they'll get a message with your code and all within the platform. And

Sarah Burke  53:41  
just keep in mind, too, after the long weekend, on Tuesday, we will be sending out in Patreon all the details for the on sale for Patreon members. One thing we didn't mention is you get 48 hours before public on sale to purchase. Details will come on Tuesday. You will be able to purchase on Wednesday, public on sale next week, on Friday, and we know that this is a Toronto local event, but we're obviously thinking about all the other things. And this is just like we're testing it out. This is our trial Iceland's next gee whiz.

Jann Arden  54:12  
All set Japan will be there. All three of us will be there. Yeah? Japan, that's where we should do it, yeah? So sign up Patreon. Listen, if you've been on Patreon lately, I'm doing bonus content like a mad fiend. I told you about little something that happened that nobody else even knew. With me last week, you guys were getting a little bit of insight. But usually, every day, I'm posting at least one new thing about what's going on, and it really helps us create this show. It helps us make this show. And I, you know, there's a lot of people that are, you know, we do get kind of tired of being sort of pinched for every little dime, every corner that we take. But we feel like we bring it every week, week after week after week, and I'm being paid in gum. Bears right now for this show, like, I get a bag of gummy bears, and I get really, you're

Sarah Burke  55:05  
welcome anyway.

Jann Arden  55:06  
We really appreciate you. We appreciate you supporting art. And I think it's really important. We want to keep making the show, and we want to keep doing fun things like this, like doing these live shows, and we are really thinking about this is our first one. You're going to get a glass of like champagne or non alcohol, something. Rather, we're going to have really nice gift bags. I can't even tell you what's in the gift bag, but I know this for sure, my book, if I knew, then every single person is going to get a book, a hardcover. If I knew, then book in the gift bag. Those books retail for like 2995 so I cannot tell you what value there is. And I think we tell them how much the tickets are, or do we want to just,

Sarah Burke  55:51  
not yet, not yet, just wait for your deal. The tickets are

Jann Arden  55:53  
3000 US dollars each. We think it's fair, and $5

Caitlin Green  55:58  
off, though. Anyways, come join us over on only Jans. That's really the message. Patreon,

Sarah Burke  56:03  
the only Jans will get an update on Jan's Little Thing She had this week, my dating life and Caitlin. Give us a tease.

Caitlin Green  56:10  
Oh, I'll tell you an interesting way that I sprained a toe this weekend is that it yes, she has a mouthful. Sound, say, totally do.

Jann Arden  56:19  
No, I'm eating, I'm eating a peach. One more final thing. And Caitlin, you did this to me. I've been on Noom for so I just logged my 45th meal. I've lost five pounds

Unknown Speaker  56:32  
telling me, Oh, good job. I don't know what

Jann Arden  56:34  
I'm doing, but I've lost five pounds. So I'm I'm eating, like, a ton of things that are low calorie, but really a lot of density. So I've learned a lot. But yeah, I'm doing Noom. So Noom, would it kill you to sponsor us? No, it would not, I know. So I log on every day. I'm learning a lot about it is calorie counting, but it's way more than that. There's fun little quizzes that I do every day, and I'm learning stuff. I've learned a lot. So I'm sitting here eating this bowl of they're 30 calories each. They're plums and like, I'm full. I'm having a cup of tea. I got juice, which counts as my water. I'm doing five glasses of fucking water every day. So thank you, Noom. But yeah, I've lost five pounds. Not that it's but my goal is just, I just want to be healthier and just fit my clothes a little bit better. And like I said, I don't want to get I don't want to let this go as I'm getting older. So yes, I'm on Noom. That's all I have to say. Join us on the other side of this. We've got some bonus material. We've got lots to talk about, and I'll tell you a little bit more about what happened to me last week and what's going on with my me and my body. Don't you want to know? Thanks for listening to the genre and podcast and show. Leave us a voice note. Come on. Leave us a voice note. We'll play your voice notes. Don't make me leave my own voice notes again, people. God, please.

Jann Arden  57:55  
We'll see you next time. Caitlin green, Sarah Burke, thank you as always, to lead it.