Former First Lady of Iceland Eliza Reid & Our Disappointment in Snoop Dogg

0:08  
Well, gracious, good morning, good afternoon, good evening. Wherever you find yourself, you're listening to the Jan Arden Podcast. I'm here, as always, with the wonderful Caitlin green, and we have a very special guest today, Eliza Reed is here with us today. You may remember Eliza being on our show, oh, just over a year ago. She was, at that time, the First Lady of Iceland, and is also a brilliant author. I can attest to that because I've just had the opportunity to read her very first work of fiction, which is coming out soon, and that's why we're going to be talking to Eliza Reed today. We also want to talk about the Iceland writers retreat, which Eliza founded with Erica Jacobs green in 2014 and it is one of the preeminent writers retreats on the planet, and has been reviewed thusly by many publications, and I am going to be part of it this year in April 2025, Eliza Reed, welcome to the podcast. Thank you

1:10  
very much, Jan. It's such a pleasure to be back on the podcast and to have a bit of an Iceland love fest

1:15  
here today, having visited your country. It is. It is probably one of the most gobsmacking trips that I have ever experienced in my life. I was there, as you know, you were very gracious enough to invite my friends to the actual the White House, I guess you could call it of Iceland. And we're still in shock over that. We're still talking about that afternoon. So I guess right out of the box. Tell me about the rice, tell me about the Iceland writers retreat. I think I was saying writers retreat and Iceland at the same time.

1:50  
That's okay. It's the afternoon here in Iceland, so I'm thinking about rice and supper already. So we're good the Iceland writers retreat, yeah, it's what I call my professional baby, and we're running it now for the 11th year in a row. And essentially, if you like to write, you get to come to this beautiful country, Iceland, to its capital city, Reykjavik, which is a UNESCO city of literature, and do what you love to do with other people who love to write. Say it's like, if you like cooking, you might go to Thailand for a week and take a cooking class. And this is about writing. So we welcome everybody. Whether you are a full time working writer, whether you have ambitions to be a published writer, whether you just kind of tinker with a diary or like to do it, you are welcome here. And essentially, the whole event is a combination of two kind of things. One, are these small group writing workshops led by faculty around the world this year. You won't believe it, but we have Jan Arden coming as one of the faculty members. We're very, very excited, but we have a number of people coming to teach workshops as well. We switch over faculty every year. We have Curtis sidfeld, who wrote Rodham, who's written a number of other books, Helen McDonald, who wrote H's for Hawk, Kevin Chong Giller, Prize winner, Danny Ramadan, another Canadian author, Jonas cameri, so lots of people, little, small classes, maximum 15 people each, that you can just talk about all different aspects of writing with. And then the other component of the visit is getting to know Iceland as a as a destination for literary tourism. So we have day trips to the Icelandic countryside. And Jen, you've been to the countryside, you know what it's like, but these are trips that we've created ourselves. So they're, they're led by a writer as a tour guide. In fact, this year, I'll also pitch that we have one of our tour guides is coming back. He's my husband. He's no longer the president of Iceland, and he used to be a tour guide for us, and so I've convinced him to come back and do it again. He's a writer and a historian as well, and we have readings and stops on the way so people really get to know Iceland, Icelandic literature, Icelandic music and other heritage. So we're a sort of social and fun group, and it's just a gathering of like minded people from around the world. We have a lot of fun with it. One of

4:04  
the things that I learned from you, that I really was taken aback by was Icelandic people are like you said. It's a literary UNESCO country, but everyone in Iceland writes a book like if you go into an Icelandic bookstore, I don't know statistically what it is, I feel like it's 90% of your population has written a book, or is writing a book, they are published authors. Can you tell me how that even happens, and how is that a thing? I mean, we're dealing with our neighbors to the south that statistically, we found out a couple of shows ago that they have a 52% illiteracy rate to some degree, which is shocking. So now we have Iceland with everybody's writing a

4:52  
book, yeah, probably not everybody, but a lot of people, I hope we have, we have a great phrase in Icelandic as Gauguin, which means to walk with a book. In your belly, which is this idea that we all have a story that we're waiting to give birth to. And I think that that is really beautiful. And I think, you know, I've done a lot of talks about this overall, and not to give you a lecture, I think it's a combination of history. You know, Iceland is where the Icelandic sagas come from, which are these ancient pieces of literature that have inspired writers and other cultural people for centuries later that we're very, very proud of. It's sort of a cultural heritage for the Icelandic nation, and there is a lot of government support as well for writers and other pursuits. So you can actually apply for a salary if you are an Icelandic author that is paid for by the government, because, again, the then you're helping to contribute to the the Icelandic language as well. And that kind of builds on itself. There's this respect for cultural output overall. So authors are maybe the most well known in that sense. But also musicians, visual artists, other kind of artists, screenwriters, of course, you know kids these days, they want to be on the PlayStation. They don't necessarily want to write the book, but I think that fundamentally, there still is this, this interest in reading, in literature. We have this huge event just before Christmas called the Christmas book flood every year, and and everybody, the most of the books are sold over the year. Get sold at this time of year. And people do readings all over the place, and it's very, very COVID. Very, very cozy. And then there's these traditions of getting books on Christmas Eve that you then get to read. And I think we're a storytelling nation, you know, and if running this event for the past just over a decade has taught me anything, it's as well, is that we all have a story to tell. You know, we all we don't have to have been a First Lady, and we don't have to be be a singer. We don't we. We can live our own lives, and we each have something unique that that we can tell and inspire other people with, give other people hope with, and connect to other people with, even if our own background and experiences is different than somebody else's. Caitlin, oh,

6:57  
I just love this so much. And to me, what you're outlining, I'm like, okay, sure, this is a writer's retreat. This also sounds like a mental health retreat, in a way, because what you're saying about, you know, adding value to someone, regardless of necessarily their personal or professional accomplishments, and the idea that the most regular person still has this amazing story to tell. I feel like that part of artistry and creativity has been so lost up, especially in the swath of social media and kind of a different form of attention being paid to your phone every day, versus, you know, a book and on, really, like creating something in a longer form, you're dedicating some real craft to. So I'm just fangirling for a moment over here. Being like this is not only going to be so good for writing, but also I think it would be a really great thing for people. Just on a personal level, it feels very It feels very special. Yeah, well, that's I

7:44  
really like that. You say that, because one of the things that we have always tried to do is maintain a really friendly, welcoming, egalitarian atmosphere. And I think that that's something who the people who come and take part often comment on, because I remember that we thought when we first did this, this will be kind of a bucket list item for people. They'll come once, they'll say, I want to go to Iceland. This is a good opportunity for me. And of course, it's a lot of women who go. Everyone who's got the majority, I would say, are probably women. Women don't tend to kind of put take vacations for themselves, carve out that time for themselves, you know? And so it's a big deal for them. And we get a lot of people who are going through some kind of a change in their life, whether they are recently bereaved, recently divorced, going through cancer treatment, kind of trying to process big things in their lives. And for them to trust us with their time, with their money, with their personal stories, is is very gratifying and flattering, and the fact that they want to come to us, and I think we take that very seriously, that everyone is welcome. It's a very safe environment, and a lot of these people come back. So we always have about we've had a couple people come every single year, in fact, which I which I think is so kind, we've had about a third of people come who've come back before, and just if they feel that they can kind of share those stories with us. And some people said, I went to this feeling like I am a person who likes to write, and I left feeling like a writer. We're not there to talk about the business of selling books. We're not there to say who is better than another person. And that then goes with the faculty as well. So you know, the people we have, all these authors who are coming, some are really well known, some are less well known, but they're having breakfast with you, or are there on the bus with you on the tour. So it's, it's, it's really not something where we, where we're trying to be exclusive in any way. And I think that people, people really enjoy that, and then they kind of connect to each other. And, you know, so it's my dream. This has never happened, but, but but maybe this is going to happen. Maybe some of the listeners will help me out here that we you know, there's a lot of writing groups who have been that have been founded afterwards. They meet in cities where people come from, or people who have stayed in touch, people who've been invited to other festivals, published the first book. But as far as I'm aware, we've never had two people who have met and then gotten married after going to the writer's retreat and. Kind of, it's kind of a little dream, you know, that one day, and then they'll have to invite me the wedding and Erica, and then they can say, I'll sing for the There we go. So that's a challenge to listeners of the Jen Arden podcast. I think what's

10:12  
so wonderful about this, and you you touched on this, is that this is not about perceived ability. This is not about, you know, a lot of people don't try things simply because they don't think they're going to be good at them. And I use this example a lot. I asked my friend years ago what she would really like to do, because she was kind of just looking for something different, outside of her job outside of her kids and her marriage. And she goes, I really, I've always loved photography, and I was thinking of taking the class. I said, oh, you should she goes, I just, yeah, but I'm not really good at it, so I don't want to embarrass myself in the photography class. And I said, it's a photography class, yeah. Like you need to hear yourself saying these words outside, but it's funny, the things that keep us back. So being a writer, everyone's a writer. If you are sitting at a dinner table and telling regaling people about finding a parking spot at chinook and what happened and who was fighting about what, and the guy got out of the car and he had a hat on, and he looked really it's just taking the pen and putting that down on a paper and writing. Everyone is a writer. Everyone is a storyteller. Maybe it's just the physicality of typing it out or writing it down. And I can attest to that, as Can you I mean, it's we all have to start somewhere. Where was your starting point? I know that you, you know, worked in journalism, and you were working with magazines before you met your husband, who became the president of Iceland. So,

11:54  
yeah, you know, you're right. I started doing the writing. Actually, it shows you how life takes these twists and turns. You know, I always liked writing in school and doing those things I'd never, ever thought about doing it as a career. You know, my life just just led me other places. I started working for magazine, because when I lived in Iceland, at first, I was laid off from my job after a year working in a marketing area, and I was thought, well, get another marketing job. And I, while I was looking for work and not getting anything. I just pitched to the an English language newspaper in Iceland, and I said, Would you like a story on what it's like for an immigrant looking for work in Iceland? And they said, No, not really, but we'd love a story on the Eurovision Song Contest, which is this, like very big kitschy pop thing in Europe. And I was like, okay, sure, but I anyway, a former Icelandic competitor was at used to go to the gym with me. I asked if I could interview him. And that kind of complete coincidence led from one thing to another thing. And I got my writing chops in more I liked the world. I think, having founded this event, which I think was a success because we were organized, you know, remember to order the coffee for everybody and all that. But I think being around all these people and hearing them be excited about what they were working on also helped encourage me to think that maybe I could, I could do it too. And the first book I wrote, Secrets of the sparker, I wrote primarily during the pandemic. Again, you always think, Oh, I won't have time. I think time is a huge thing that you think you're never going to have time to carve out for yourself. And May,

13:27  
I say, international best seller. You may. Thank you very much. Yeah, it is. It was a remarkable first step into its memoir style, its storytelling style, but it's also speaking to women and how women make their way through Icelandic society. And I think the world really had its eyes open about the idea of equality, and you've often talked in different articles about Icelandic women. Aren't there yet? No, not there yet. No, no, we're further down the road than many, many, you know, developed nations, but we're not there yet. The book was very enlightening to me, like, just things that you're doing, with childcare, with pregnancies, with women working, that that balance, like it was mind boggling. Eliza, it really was,

14:17  
well, you know, I think that one of the things, if you talk, if we're talking about, you know, storytelling and sharing these, these stories and all that too, is, I think, that we books that we like, we don't necessarily remember the plot of the story. We don't necessarily remember all the characters names or what happened, but we remember the emotions that it evoked when we finished reading it right. And with secrets of the sprach car, which is, as you said, there is a bit of memoir in there too, but it's a lot of interviews with various Icelandic women. What I want people to go away with is, I call it kind of my love letter to my adopted homeland, you know, so that people, even if they're going on vacation to Iceland, might want to read it, because they learn about different facets of society through the eyes of its women. And I just want to people. Read it and feel good, you know, especially when I talk about an issue like gender equality and feminism, and there's a lot of anger and frustration, and we need to feel galvanized. I think we need to feel empowered to work to make a difference. I don't want people to feel like there's a lot of anger, that there's futility with what's going on. And I hope that people read those stories and the stories of these women and think, Okay, I could, you know, we don't all have to completely change the world, but we can certainly all do our part to nudge things in the right direction. And I hope that some of those stories inspire people to feel like we can all make a difference. You know, we can all make a difference helping to elevate people's voices through helping to to share our own stories and share the stories of others, and realize what connects us. So that, if you're the fishing captain in this tiny village in the west coast of Iceland, how do I connect to, you know, the the entrepreneur in Calgary? But I bet you can find a way, and that you know, actually, you know, talking about new things or not, at the retreat this year, I'm teaching a workshop as well. It's the first time that both Erica, my co founder, and I are teaching workshops. And I, you know, I'll say it right now, I've, I've never taught a writing workshop before. I actually have a few of them lined up before April. And, you know, there's a first time for everything and, and that's what I'm going to be talking about a lot is that. I call it bringing out the extraordinary and the ordinary. It's trying to help people to tease out the unique details of a life, but the details that help connect us to to other people as well. And that's what I tried to do with with secrets of the spraca.

16:34  
You did that and then some. Sarah, I'd be remiss if I didn't give you the opportunity to ask a question.

16:41  
So there's a lot of parallels between podcasting and writing a book. So I'm wondering, first of all, like, how people in Iceland maybe engage with podcasts? Like, do you think that it's a big thing over there, or do you think it's still coming up? And then I have a part two,

16:56  
but I'll let you answer that. Okay, well, I would say one notable difference is that I put on lipstick to talk to you today. And I don't do that when I'm writing.

17:05  
I'm going to do that.

17:06  
This is, this is a visual podcast, yeah, so you know, it is up and coming. And I confess that I am a little bit kind of outside the loop, and I should be better, because, of course, the Icelandic podcasting scene is in Icelandic. And sometimes I'm a little bit lazy, even though I speak good Icelandic, and I don't tend to listen to all the podcasts, but I would say the last couple years, we've really seen more of an explosion of Icelandic podcasting. And there is a there's a great example, because if we talk about the media landscape overall, or the storytelling landscape, and I say media broadly, because we see cutbacks in terms of news, in terms of local coverage and, you know, and podcasting is a great opportunity for that. You know, if I look at ISO, which has a population of 400,000 people, you can get interviews with all kinds of politicians, with with pop stars, with with writers that, you know, we don't have as many magazines being published because that's too expensive. So I think there's a lot of potential to reach people through podcasting. What's your part

18:06  
two? There's a parallel between sharing a chapter of a book and an episode of a podcast as well, like the way you break down whatever project it is that you're working on, right? So have you ever thought about something similar, like when you're writing your next book, sharing, you know, a chapter as an episode of something. Because, you know, we also get audiobooks where we hear your voice tell the story. And that is something that's really close to my heart, too. I listen to audiobooks before bed. I was just wondering. I listened to audiobooks

18:34  
before bed too. I'm just gonna keep it real and tell you also why I sometimes listen to them. Because, you know, we all have these Guilty Pleasures on our phones, and mine is Candy Crush. And so I feel like it kind of counteracts it if I'm listening to a very kind of intellectual, political memoir and going, what's going on, but I'm also playing Candy Crush then continuously,

18:55  
yeah, I'm very impressed with you. That's busy, well, two very different sectors of the mind, I

19:05  
don't know, because I feel like then it's so passive, kind of just listening, I can do this mindless thing that I would feel guilty about if it were all that I were doing. Got you. Yeah, right. And then I'm doing anyway. So I like the audiobooks you were talking about episodes and like,

19:21  
just bringing your story to life with your voice, really is what it's about. Yeah,

19:25  
so it's a great idea. You know, I'm often thinking about what I want to be when I grow up, because I love that. My time is First Lady ended last summer. Is kind of a crossroads. You're thinking what we're going to do. I have, you know my first fiction is coming out at the end of April, and then I'm writing the follow up to that book, and I'm writing another book which is non fiction, so and I'm doing public speaking, and the writers retreat. So there's lots of stuff going on, but sometimes in my mind,

19:54  
I'm like, You're a mother and you're of several children. Yes? So. So it is a brick in the wall that's important. You know, people are like, how do you do everything? You just do it. You just find the time. And you

20:06  
know what I would add to that, though, as well, because you're, you know, I am a mom, and of course, I do my best at being a mother, as I hope most parents do, but women especially have all of these, all these expectations put on us. You know that that we're supposed to be perfect mothers and have amazing careers and look gorgeous all the time and be totally in shape and cook healthy meals and have a tidy house and and we can't do all like nobody can do all of those things. And so you've been very kind to me now in the podcast and say that, you know, I'm a good writer, that I brought this nice writer to cheat, and I have all these kids, and those are kind of all my priorities. If you looked inside the house, which is not, it is totally messy. I didn't wash my hair today. You know, there's other things where I dropped the ball because I choose to, and that also shows my privilege and my fortune that I get the chance to say, this is the ball that I'm going to drop in terms of living up to some unrealistic expectation of being a woman. Because a lot of people don't have the opportunity to drop those balls, a lot of people can only do the three jobs that they have to do, and then sometimes they can also be a good parent or, you know, whatever it is. So I certainly think it's unrealistic for every person to or every woman to aim, to have all of these perfect dimensions to their lives. And I don't think we talk enough about how nobody has all of those things all under control. But we also need to acknowledge that when we get to talk about all that and choose which ones we're going to do, it's also pretty fortunate for us and

21:42  
I think human life is about dropping balls. I think it's the only way forward to empathy and building character and showing your children something that's realistic. I mean, there's a there's some people that, like you said, this privilege where they have a housekeeper come in that picks up every little building block, that piece of Lego that gets laid down that and the laundry is done and all these things. But I would, I would be very hard pressed to say that the people that have all these things in place, these these fail safe things to make their lives look a certain way. I think that, I think that at some point damages and takes away from your humanness of, you know, what you're capable of and learning. I can't stand having my obstacles removed. For me. I just don't, I don't want that. I don't mind failing at all. You know, getting back to writing, it's just like before we went to air. I was telling Eliza and the girls that my editor, Anne Collins, who's wonderful at Random House, removed, and I mean, removed, 40,000 words from the biddlemores in a book that is 210,000 words. It's like a quarter of the book storylines that I worked on for months, because let's go back. I worked on this book for 1112, years, and I'm going, that's going to be one of the things I'm going to speak to at the Iceland writers retreat, is sticking with the project even when you think it's impossible to finish. Oh, I'll never get it done. It's worthless. And how many people have those projects sitting in boxes. So I really want to address that in April, to anyone that shows up for my little segment, is, yeah, is that follow through and that it can be done even if you're having 40,000

23:31  
words removed, you know? And a journey begins with a single step, as you said. And I think it's learning not to take that personally. All of these edits, they end up often making it a better book. And you know, one of the things that I don't know if I'll talk about my workshop, but I think we often talk about it, is these ideas of rejection, like when I wrote, you know, my first fiction is coming out in the spring, and I started it sort of after I finished secrets of the sparker, because I thought, now I've incorporated writing somehow into my routine. And if I don't just start something else. Now I'll just always say that I never have time. And it's one thing to write a non fiction book and you have a proposal, and you write a couple chapters and an outline, and you sell that, and then you are contractually obligated to finish the damn

24:12  
book. Someone's pushing you right? You got

24:15  
you've got to do it. But with fiction, nobody cares until you've written a whole book and you might be finished, and some people will say, Yeah, thanks, but no thanks. And I found, at least personally, that it was really hard to be motivated to continue to do that. And the only thing that kept me going, which maybe sounds ridiculous, but I thought it could be that I write this and nobody wants to publish it, but I know 100% that no one will publish it if I never write it. Yeah, and that was the only thing that I that kind of kept me going. And then I kept all of the I was one of those authors. I said to my agent, send me every rejection as they come in. Like I would just like to know the status of what's going on. And of course, there's plenty of been on Tinder lately. Yeah. Yeah,

25:01  
your book is called death on the island, and I want to, I want to speak to it for a minute before we let you go. I was fortunate enough, and I don't know how the literary God shone a light on me, and I was able to read a galley copy, which is the copy that, you know, might still have a couple little spelling mistakes or whatever, and it, you know, people get to read it. I loved it. I'm not going to say one word about it, death on the island. I don't even know how to describe it. You're going to have to just wait and read my quote, whatever they chose to put on the book. But it is very kind of, you know, but it's not kind it's, it's really, it's smart, it's funny. The character, I mean, Jane, is like, I just, I just loved it. And I read a lot, Eliza, you can ask the girls, I read a lot. We are starting a book club, and I want you to know that Eliza reads death on the island, is going to be part of the Jan Arden podcast book club as so exciting, yeah, once it comes out. So, you know, I'm not going to put you on the spot, but if you don't come back and talk to our listeners, oh, I got our book club book, but yeah, and then that death of a diplomat is the second one. No,

26:16  
they're just, actually, it's the different titles the same book. So it's death on the island in North America, and it's death of a diplomat in the UK. And it's the same book and it's a different title. Maybe people buy two thinking it's the same. I'm only about a third of the way through the first draft of Book Two, so it doesn't even have a title yet, so, but it's the same character. What are we getting? Are we getting in North America? We're getting death on the island. The European title is actually the original title that I wrote, and the publishers in the US and then Canada decided that they thought death on the island was a better selling title. And who am I to argue with marketing?

26:51  
Let the professionals do their job. That's right. They sell books every day, exactly. And I kind of, I'd like

26:56  
to sell the book so I go, I would like you also to say that it is available for pre order. Now, I will plug that because, as you know, too, with authors, pre orders are a big

27:07  
deal. They really are. They help you get to the number one. You know, those all count towards your charting position. So very much, like songs in the top 40 books have a very similar trajectory, and like anything else in this world, folks, when you make it on a best seller list, especially that top 10 position, it is, for me, it's a lazy man's way to sell a book, because I often will go to those top 10, top 20 when I'm searching for a book that I want to Read. I do rely on that. And I rely on reviews. I rely on star reviews, because it's a really wide swath that is cut by listeners and readers.

27:49  
If it doesn't start off really well, then people kind of pull the resources. Oh, let's move on to something else, etc, etc. So it is, it is the building

27:57  
blocks of capitalism, and it really is important.

28:02  
Are we here promoting capitalism?

28:06  
I'm just, I'm just saying in the industry, like in Canada, for example, a best selling book is 5000 copies of a book. We have 40 million people here. So when you think about statistically, a best seller, 5000 and what people go to you. And I have a slight advantage, and I mean that with love in my heart, I have a swath of people that have followed me the last 30 years that will open the door for me a crack. But if the book is not worthy, and that was my sixth book, The biddlemores, if the book isn't worthy, the crack in the door is going to shut. Very similar with an international platform that you had be it, you know, Iceland's first lady. I mean, there's a lot of light shone on that. You had a lot of exposure, but I almost would think it would be more pressure for you to write secrets of the sprach are and write a complete turd, but you didn't. I mean, people don't understand the risk involved, because it's not like being Jane smitherson from Peace River, Canada that puts out a novel and it's hard to sell it. Nobody knows her. It's her first book, like there's so many things, and when we talked about privilege earlier. I completely understand that, but I also know everyone that's listening, it gives me the opportunity, but once that door closes, if it's not good, it's even more piled on you. I am defending us. I'm just saying that you know, going into writing your first novel, I understand just how intricate that pressure is and I was nervous reading it.

29:42  
I'm like, Oh, wow.

29:45  
Please. Eliza, read. Please, go make this a turn. Yeah. Adriana triggiani gave me

29:51  
really good I said, what? I said, if people ever asked you to like, do a blurb for books that they've written, and if you don't really like it, what happened? She goes, Well, I. I'll say, great cover. I really loved the backdrop, like she had really funny things to say about that, but she said, Indeed, and she's got these heavy hitter friends that I'm sure, you know, once in a while, she'll get something that, Okay, I gotta write a blurb for this. So I was rooting for you, and I wasn't disappointed. Oh, you're very kind. What do people need to know to sign up in April for the Iceland writers retreat, travel and things like that? Maybe we can just touch on that for a second. Yeah, so in the show notes, yeah,

30:33  
it's from April 23 to the 27th this year, and the faculty changes every year. So especially if you want to take your classes with Jan Arden and others, this is the year to do it. You can go to our website, Iceland writers retreat.com, for how much it costs, it's pretty all inclusive, except for the flights and the hotel. But we have fantastic food, great gift bags, all the workshops, tours, et cetera. And we have a special offer for listeners of the Jan Arden pod, which is 5% off the standard fee for anybody who wants to sign up and attend. We call standard because you can upgrade to take more workshops and do other things, 5% off the standard fee, and all you do is pay your deposit, and then when you fill in the How did you hear about us? Warm, you just say through the pod, and then, well, thank you lied at the

31:26  
end. That's because we,

31:28  
we like this podcast. And I know when I was on a couple of years ago, people had heard about us this way. And so I think I just feel like the listeners of this podcast are a good a good match for the idea. Well,

31:43  
they're, they're all book people. They're very excited about us announcing, we're calling it the Jan Arden pod book bag. So we're really excited about

31:50  
it. And I should say it's also not that far as you know, like we're not, you know, it's a five hour flight from Toronto, five hour flight from New York. It's not, maybe, as far as you think, but

31:59  
it's 2 million and a virgin Caesar, I know this,

32:04  
speaking for a friend.

32:06  
And yeah, no, it was fantastic. And I'm I'm going a couple of days early. A colleague of mine is coming, Chris is coming with me, and we're coming a couple of days early, just to eat stuff. The food is incredible. When I came away from that trip, we could not stop talking about the food. We even took a food tour, yeah, downtown Reykjavik, a historical food tour of some of the the oldest establishments. The last little stop that we had, we people were served fermented shark and we

32:40  
do not serve that at the IWR. I'll just say that before people are like, I'm not going, Oh no,

32:43  
this was just he explained it very much. This was something when they would bury the shark underground and it would be there for months. And it was a very much an acquired taste. But our guide said my grandmother actually served us to us on a Sunday. And anyway, it's been fantastic having you on as always, I look forward to watching death on the island become an instant best seller, because it's just an incredible piece of work, and you should be from your lips.

33:11  
We'll see. I'm

33:13  
telling you like I said, I read a lot, and I look forward to seeing anybody at the writers retreat. I hope you guys can make it out. All the information will be on the show notes. Eliza Reed, as always, you have just been an absolute pleasure. I was

33:24  
just going to ask because Eliza, we've been, we've been doing this with some guests that we've had on the show recently, yes, and it's sort of in and around an area that we find really connects with so many of our listeners. But what do you do to support your own kind of mental health and to take care of yourself? Like, what's something you do for yourself? Is it? Do you go sit in the Blue Lagoon? Like, what? How do you how do you take care of yourself? So

33:47  
I love going for walks, but sometimes the weather isn't that compliant in Iceland, and then you can't go for walks. I'd love to tell you that I do all, like, all kinds of yoga poses and and eat super clean foods and all that, and I don't at all. And I guess, rather than doing that, I guess a broad thing is I really try to feel comfortable with my decisions in my life. I really try to not spend emotional energy. I'm thinking I should have done this. I should have done that. Why do I not do yoga every day? Why do I not eat super clean food every day? Because either I should be doing it and enjoying it, or I should just not worry that I'm not doing it. And in the evenings, when I've listened to my book played my candy crush, where I'm being very open with all of you readers. Now, I just try to try to think to myself, What did I like about today, and what am I looking forward to about tomorrow? Active

34:36  
meditation and grad is that what I don't know, what it's called. Hey, I'm no expert in this space, but that's what it is. You're giving gratitude, and you're being active about your meditating. Yeah, okay, I just,

34:46  
you know, like, it just kind of puts it all up. And then, of course, I worry about, you know, global warming and all the stuff that, yeah,

34:52  
why not worrying about?

34:52  
That's the nightcap, exactly. That's

34:56  
the like, after, I just try to feel grateful. Yeah. Quick thing

34:59  
I was. Just gonna say, and I feel like this is gonna come up more, because, you know, we also have a prime minister on his way out right now. But are we to call you the ex first lady of Iceland? Like, what you know in your books, when people are writing the you know, and about the author, I guess, what do we call you? I guess former First Lady? Yeah, okay, because also, it's not even, like a proper title, yeah, it's so funny. When I talk about it with my husband, I say, like, oh, I used to be the first you know, I'm like, my husband and I are still together as a couple, just, you know, in different roles. It's not a, yeah, it's not a title. I

35:32  
say, former First Lady. Okay, thank you for clarifying. But maybe if the book is a big success, I'll be like, author of The Jane shear series of murder mysteries and former first lady Well,

35:43  
without having met me, the first lady at the time, took me and three complete other strangers into her home, and it was one of the highlights of my life. And looking at the 100 year old Bible, it was a really special day. It may not have seemed we were all mortified. None of us had proper clothes. We're all like going, oh my god, I can't believe I wore those shoes with mud on them. And then your husband came in for a photograph with us, and it was really special. Anyway, thanks for being on the show today and and I look forward to to seeing you in April, and I'll look forward to everyone reading your book. So Eliza Reed has been our guest today. Death on the island is her new novel that is going to be out in April. And if you can come to the Iceland writers retreat, all the information is on the podcast, and you will get 5% off if you said that you heard it here on the Jan Arden pod. Eliza Reed, thank you so much, former first lady of Iceland, we shall bid you again. Thank

36:43  
you so much. Looking forward to seeing you person soon, we will

36:47  
be right back. Lots more to come.

36:58  
Welcome back and with Caitlin green, as always, Sarah Burke is always in our guest, who was fantastic was Eliza Reed, the former first lady of Iceland. Sarah made the suggestion of X, the X first lady, and Eliza said, No, I will be the former anyway. How are you guys doing? I feel like I haven't seen you for over a week. I

37:22  
know I'm cold, is what I am. Yeah, it's cold here. Sweater Weather, sweater weather, sweater weather. It's freezing here, and also freezing and dry. I don't think there. It's possible to have enough humidifiers going in your house right now in Canada, and I think that moisturizing is at this point a part time job. For me, you're gonna lose an apple if you don't, honestly, I'm gonna add a nosebleed, like out of nowhere, yes. Oh, shit, you need a humidifier. Yeah. But other than that, mostly just hibernating. And I feel like when Eliza was talking about the weather and the darkness in Iceland and Canada obviously experiences similar weather at times, it made me wonder and think, if there isn't, perhaps, a correlation between the climate and the darkness of Iceland in Canada, and why we're prone to these indoor sports like reading and writing, because it's very in line with just being cozy and not wanting to go outside. And you have so many months of the year where you're you're forced indoors, that you're gonna end up reading a lot of books. You know

38:17  
what it is today? It is Blue Monday. Oh, I hate that stupid, I know. And like, it's an eye roll.

38:23  
I know you're listening on a Friday, but we are taping on Blue Monday. So what is explain Blue Monday? Is it something to do with the moon?

38:30  
It's like a term coined by a travel agency way back when. And, okay, I mean, it got picked up as, like, a huge media thing, that we're all depressed on the most depressed at this point in January and people taking advantage of mental health kind of concepts around this time. Did I explain that? Right? Caitlin,

38:46  
yes, absolutely. It's a marketing ploy to make everyone spend money on travel

38:49  
and coincidence, Donald Trump is getting inaugurated today. Very blue indeed.

38:56  
Well read, but yes, yeah, I was seeing that sort of filter through on my social just today, like all the different shots of delegates arriving and everyone trying to do, oh, body language experts are going to tell you what it means when President Obama looks at this person this way, I was like, Oh, my God, here we go again. We

39:13  
were going to hit this whole tick tock, you know, going away and then coming back all in however many hours. Let's talk about

39:19  
that for a minute. Because, yeah, we saw 1000s, if not hundreds of 1000s of goodbye Tiktok videos. People were crying. People were, you know, worrying about, you know, losing, you know, 1000s and 1000s of dollars every year, because Tiktok in the United States, as we know, pays out. They do not do those programs here in Canada, as far as I know, I think you can accept gifts from people, but it's a little different format here. Anyway, all these lamenting, crying, sobbing, like I really was over watching it, I'm just like, you guys have to figure out how to live in the real world. I'm sorry. I'm. Gonna say it, but I guess when you have 40 million followers, it's the closest thing to fame that you're going to get for making cucumber salads in a plastic bin, you know, once a week, and shaken them up and made

40:13  
communities, though, to be fair, like there are some people who have like, you know, whether it's like a cause like moms demanding action. I understand,

40:21  
I do understand that, Sarah, I do get it. But, you know, they've elected a guy that's going to take away basically basic democracy, like it's an oligarchy. He's appointing rich people. Yes, you didn't see anyone putting their hands in the air and crying and lamenting and like, it's amazing what Americans in particular, and that's what I'm talking about. What they deem is important, and we can see that in plain sight. So anyway, that's my bit.

40:51  
I finished short. We like it.

40:53  
I just, I

40:55  
didn't care at all.

40:56  
It's amazing what people find important. Yeah, I didn't. I didn't care either.

41:00  
I thought there were some good jokes like, the best I hope for from the internet this day and age is when something goes down and starts trending. I'm like, Can we at least get some good jokes out of this? Because honestly, you're gonna see so many different platforms come and go in your life, and you're gonna see so many different issues arise within how each platform is used, and who owns it, and who controls that form of information and that flow of information, and it will be ever changing, and it's just, it's this, it's a pawn in everyone's sort of like political game. But I do, I do think it was funny, like you Jan, to see everyone crying on there about Tiktok being gone. It was back less than 24 hours later. Let's be honest with a note of thanks to incoming President Trump, who

41:41  
started the Tick Tock ban? He did. Donald Trump. Donald Trump,

41:45  
you started this girl.

41:46  
This is, this is giving somebody a candy, you know, taking it back, and then they hand it back to you, and you're expected to thank them for taking away something from you that wasn't theirs to begin with, to take, yeah, this is textbook. This is right out of the playbook of, you know, an abusive kind of behavior and and to make you feel stupid and make you feel like, Oh, we're grateful to you Almighty one, almighty one who's given us back. Tick tock. I think it's pathetic.

42:17  
I just think that it's like they're, you know, a healthy dose of cynicism around any of these things and why they start and again, the constant through line of like, please follow the money, because that's really what this is, sort of all about. The

42:30  
motive is inauguration. He wants it live streamed on Tiktok today. That's exactly why it's back well,

42:35  
and don't forget, though, that he also does want this to be very much on his terms. So the idea is that you go in and you play hardball prior to actually having to sit down at the negotiation table. It's the it's an ability to say, you know, the government here, which I'm now in charge of, does have the ability to impact your business and to impact your your ability to reach all of these American eyeballs. And so he wants to set the tone that he that he's in control. But it is worth reminding everyone that his random and very vague executive order back in 2020, is what kicked this whole thing off. You don't own your content on these platforms. Everyone the companies own them. It is rented space. So if you are a creator, if you're someone who's part of the Creator economy, I think this is a really important moment to say, Oh, crap. I should be on a platform, perhaps, like YouTube, or maybe I should be creating a newsletter, or however you want to reach your people, but like, they could turn this switch on and off whenever they want, and then, just, like, Don't get so worked up over it. You know, Myspace came and went. Snapchat comes and goes. It's all gonna I'm still sad about MySpace. I know Tom, the only Tom from MySpace was the only good one out of all these tech bros.

43:45  
Well, you know, note to self folks do not monetize your worth by how many likes you get and how many views you get on social media. Do not monetize your value and who you are as a person and your character. The most important thing to me in my life is my dog, and he's sleeping in a bag right behind me. And my friendships. I had seven fantastic people over last night for dinner, and we didn't talk about, you know, who one time, we didn't talk about anything. We talked about life and kids and grandkids and traveling and food, and I made tomato soup and grilled cheese sandwiches and with caramelized onion and apple slices. And it was fantastic. And then we watched a really weird Chilean movie called Gloria, like we're living a life. We weren't waiting for someone to tick a box or like what we were doing, or we didn't take one picture and post it anywhere. We just yeah, we just had a moment. And

44:39  
you, you've said this before, Jan. And I mean, I'm certain it was on Mike at points, but definitely off Mike as well. But that, you know, I think what happens now when you amass a lot of followers, and when you get these, like, dopamine hits from how many likes you get on your photos, or how big your following is getting on social media, that there is this sort of quiet threat all the time that, like, we can take this away from you. And I notice when a celebrity gets quote, unquote canceled, and. Hour has this Fallout, so much of their coverage will be like, they lost 500,000 followers in a week, or whatever. Like they are trying to threaten you with this concept that, like you'll be less popular on social media. And I love that. Jan's always been like, I don't care who unfollows me. I say whatever I want, because your self worth is not rooted in how many followers you have or in your access to people.

45:18  
It's why I go after animal welfare the way I do like I literally tell people to f off. I tell them that they're a holes. I tell them, you know, how can you do this? Unfollow me then, yeah, I've been at a certain amount of following for a year. It doesn't go up and it doesn't go down. So people are unfollowing me and following me. I do not care. One last thing about this inauguration. Snoop Dogg, who I've always really loved his politics. He posted a video saying, anyone that's going to be doing anything for the first Trump inauguration, right? Yeah. So he was going off about, you know, and here he is doing this, him and Carrie Underwood and, like, maybe it's not about politics, but I'll tell you right now, it's got to be about money they must pay to play on this thing. Yeah, and, but I just think, talk about changing your mind, but I wonder what long term this is going to look like for him and his career. Maybe people just don't care. I care. I just, it's changed the way I feel about him, and it gives you an ick, hey, yeah. I just, I'm really disappointed that someone who has been so outspoken about him, dear

46:26  
Snoop Dogg, we are disappointed in you.

46:28  
Like, not he doesn't give a crap, but it's just like, Come on, dude,

46:32  
yeah, and I do think this isn't, this is a trend that everyone should keep their eyes on, and I would anticipate that it is going to grow, and it's from the designers who are addressing people who are attending this inauguration and attending these events, it's the messaging, it is going to be that this is now your opportunity to kind of, like, get in with them, because it's going to be good for your bank account and good for your your your following and all those types of things. It's it's this, everyone wants to cozy up to power. And I think previously, it was still seen as sort of unpopular, because there was a lot of scrutiny about how many people actually supported him and how he gained support. Now that seems to be done away with, and everyone is like, Okay, well, he legitimately won, and he there. There's a rebrand happening. That's all I'll say. There's going to be this mainstreaming of of him in a way that you didn't see last time. And it's going to happen with people who previously were really outspoken about him, and now they're going to be perfectly happy to perform at his events. I think you're going to see more and more of this, and it will be increasingly dismaying if you have memory of how things have changed. Just saying it's true,

47:37  
and I think it's a very valuable point that you make. Caitlin, I really do you know back in World War Two, this seems very random, but the Italians were constantly criticized for swapping sides in the war, so it basically came down to who's ahead. Okay, who's ahead. Now that's what's happening. Now they're just seeing what's in it for them, I'll tell you what. You could offer me ten million $20 million there's nothing you could offer me that would make me support a rapist who's a felon, to support someone who mocks disabled people, to support someone who's a liar, to support someone who speaks so maliciously and in such a derogatory way of women of all genders, walks of life, whatever, I just there's nothing in me that would make me do that, and you will never see me change my mind or change sides on this issue. I need

48:35  
to get a mic drop sound effect for you. That was very well said. I'm

48:38  
just saying, you know, the facts are the facts. That is what I'm going to be dealing with in my life as I go forward, I'm constantly criticized for, you know, just do stay in your lane. You're not a politician, musicians, artists, sculptures, poets, writers. Have been politicians since time immemorial. We have been the ones telling the stories of repressed, marginalized people. I just I'm disappointed in snoop. I like the guy. Maybe he's got his own reasons, and yes, people are allowed to change their minds, but this is more than a changing of the minds. This is a family man. This is a guy that values the relationship he has with his wife. And I don't know how you can draw that line between a man who has been convicted, who has talked about women the way he's talked about them. I don't know how you can go That's okay, though. I'm still I can make a couple million bucks by doing a wrap at the inauguration, or they

49:37  
really liked his recent tax breaks, and because of the tax bracket they're in, they would like to see that flow of money not get turned off. I

49:43  
don't know my word is important to me, my word, my actions. I think Eliza Reed said something that will really stay with me for a long time, when you asked her the question, what do you do for your mental health and things like that. And one of the things she said near the end of she. Her little spiel was, I want to be proud of the decisions that I make. I want to be able to stand by the decisions that I make. I love that decisions don't always have to be right, but she wanted to be comfortable with her decisions. We have some voice notes that we're going to get to before we end this episode, and we're also we have a little housekeeping, and I'm going to hand that over to either one of you guys, because we want to talk about the book club before we leave. And you know more about the technical aspect of it than I do. So I'm handing it over to my young colleagues to explain when this is going to start, explain Patreon, the different tiers in Patreon, and what that gets you as far as the Jan Arden pod book bag. So 321, go.

50:45  
So we are going to be starting the Jan Arden podcast book bag. So Jan obviously gets first crack at picking the book that She's then going to have all of us read. So Jan, you had teased a little bit about what this title would be in last week's episode. Are you ready to do the big reveal. I'm

51:00  
ready. The book is one of the best books that I have read in, I'm going to say, the last five or six years. It is called In Memoriam, written by Alice Winn W, I n n, and it is the first book in our book club. I don't want to tell you a lot about it. It is a war story, but it's not a war story, it's a human story in memoriam. You can find it everywhere. It's available on Amazon. You can listen to it on Audible. You can listen to it. You can read it on your Kindle. You can you can do all the things with this book. It's widely available,

51:32  
and there is a dedicated discussion area in Patreon, which you only get access to if you are one of our only Jan's book bag tier, which is the $7 tier. Okay, we'll have more information in the show notes. So if you're confused, have a look at all the text that goes along with this episode

51:50  
in the memoriam by Alice Lynn.

51:57  
It felt like a tad, maybe not appropriate to cheer as you were talking about the war. So I wait. No,

52:02  
I think, I think literature is worth cheering about. I mean, obviously today's episode lends itself very beautifully into our book bag that we're going to be doing on Patreon. Like Sarah said, our $7 tier, which gets you everything else that we always get, all the extra content every week, the videos, the pictures, the little it's really fun seeing everyone talk amongst themselves on some of the different forums that we have. So I'm really loving that. And I love hearing the stories of, oh, I met so and so here, and now we've met here, and we've met each other at your concert, and now we're on so keep it up. And

52:35  
for our Eliza, we need two people to meet to get married eventually,

52:39  
oh yeah, from our only Jans. If you guys meet on only Jan's, and then you get married, we're going to need to know about that at great detail. The Jan will officiate, yes, but yeah. So we will, of course, still discuss the books like on our regular episodes too. We're still going to get into it. We certainly hope to be able to have some of the authors come and join us on the show to talk about the books in greater detail. But we just wanted to get the ball kind of rolling and have Jan's first pick. So we'll, we'll reconvene a month from now, and we'll discuss the book. We'll we'll talk about our thoughts on it, and then the discussion will, of course, continue on our Patreon special tier, and that's when you can sort of interact with us and other people. And there'll be special content, there'll be giveaways. There's lots of stuff that's going to continue to roll out there around the book bag, but I'm very excited, and it's also going to force me to read this is what I need in my life.

53:25  
So there will be a post up this week that gives you like, you know, I grabbed the Indigo chapters link in the Amazon link, but feel free to, you know, if you want to listen to the audio book instead, or whatever it is, do what works for you. You can go to the library. If you don't want to purchase it outright, borrow it from a friend, but the information will be in the only Jan's book bag discussion on Patreon. One last

53:48  
little thing from me, thanks to you guys and booking a cameo. As I said, I'm wearing my Los Angeles sweatshirt. Yeah? Today we donated $800 to the Pasadena. Yeah, I just got the receipt, and we it from the Pasadena humane society that's going to help lost animals, injured animals, scared animals, misplaced animals, abandoned animals. Let's keep it going. We'll keep the link in the show notes. So keep that role, and if there's a cameo, if you want me to break up with somebody, if you want me to ask them to marry you, if you want a birthday, if you want me to sing, good mother, whatever you want. All the money this month is going to the Pasadena Humane Society. So we just fired off 800 bucks. Okay, voice notes. We got some. We got some good ones this week, so we're gonna listen to some of those.

54:33  
Okay, here we go. Here we go. Name

54:35  
is Haley, and I'm 27 years old, and I feel like this has been my entire 20s. I grew up in the late 90s, early 2000s where the message was to be beautiful, you have to be thin. And that really messed with me growing up, I've been on both extremes. I've been very overweight and I've been severely underweight, to the point where my hair started to break off. So I knew I needed to make a change. I met my partner, and he was a bodybuilder, and I'm like, Look, can you help me become healthy? So he taught me how. To build muscle, but to build muscle, you have to eat. So I've had to go on this healing journey with food, and I finally feel like I'm at this point where I can eat the sweet treats and enjoy the things that I love and not feel guilty about it. And that's been so freeing, but it took a lot of work to get there. I'm also enjoying my body now, not because of how it looks, but because last year, I literally climbed a mountain, and I've never been able to do that before. Yeah, that's been a really awesome part of this. Also thinking back at my thinnest, I still thought that I needed to lose weight, so I'm starting to think that it's not about how you look, it's about how you feel. So going into 2025, I want to go to the gym because I want to be healthy. I want to eat things because I enjoy them. I'm taking my vitamins. I'm stretching right like I want it to be all about that. And my hair is going back so beautifully, and I'm just so proud of myself, yay. But shout out to everybody, because it's just like this never ending journey I feel like, and I know how hard it is looking back at pictures from the last two years, in that moment, I hated myself, and I thought I looked awful. Now looking back, I'm like, Oh my God. Like, what was I talking about? I'm so beautiful, like, I looked amazing. So now, when I feel that way, I think about 29 year old Haley looking back at me now saying the same thing, and then I kind of laugh, and I'm like, Okay, you're being hard on yourself. So shout out to everyone you got this. Just be happy. Be yourself, be healthy. You do the things that you love because that's going to make you feel the best about yourself.

56:31  
And shout out to Jan for opening that door to talk about

56:33  
all that stuff. Wow. I was all from the chins conversation. I

56:36  
didn't have that wherewithal, and I was 27 so

56:40  
I was just thinking that. Thank you, Haley for leaving us that very honest and kind of empowering voice note. And it flies in the face of a lot of the negative messaging. I think that can happen, especially around the start of the year, like, you know, get to the gym and don't eat and lose all this weight and blah, blah, blah, kind of like, become less, you know, shrink yourself down a little bit, and she's like, No, I'm not. I'm in the climate mountain. I'm going to enjoy my gonna enjoy my food, and I'm gonna be

57:04  
healthy. Who wants to live a life of denial? Not me. Okay, here's another one. Oh, we got more.

57:08  
Hi, ladies. It's Karen from Kingston calling. I just wanted to comment today on the podcast, and specifically the segment on New Year's resolutions. I myself don't do resolutions anymore, but what I have been doing is every year I challenge myself to step outside of my comfort zone and do something totally different, something totally new, something that really challenges myself, something that excites me, something where I will learn something. I started that when I was 50, and I turned 65 this year. So I have a few adventures under my belt. I've done things like I ran a half marathon, even though I hate running, I took up archery, I took singing lessons and recorded a song last year. I took ice baths every day for a whole year, my God and just to see if I could do it. And I did. I'm not sure what my adventure will be this year, but I hope it will be something fun and exciting and just something that you know, gets you interested again and active and you're kicking butt, you know, like I say, just stepping way outside your comfort zone and and feeling like you've really accomplished something. So I just wanted to send a little note and say, that's what I'm doing. So good for you. I challenge everybody else out there to, you know, find something that excites them and gets them moving again, and, you know, find something interesting. It really, really makes life so much, so much more joyful. Yeah, that's

59:02  
incredible, like, and that's just the thing, you don't have to be good at any of these things. Like, you don't have to be good at taking an ice bath. You just, you don't have to have any level of expertise. You just need to grit your teeth and get in there. But that's a commitment, doing doing that every day for a year. One, really,

59:21  
what you're just doing is getting more engaged with your own life. Yeah, right. And you're like, oh, like, I'm it's very like, I'm alive. It's like, the vibe I was getting from Karen in that moment. And I love it. That's so cool. Absolutely love it. Okay,

59:33  
here's Kim. Hi there. This is my third take, my third or fourth attempt at doing this. So I'm going to try and be as brief as possible. Jan, lifetime fan, or nearly lifetime fan, became a fan of yours with the release of happy. I still think the sound of is one of the greatest songs, slash singles of the last 50 years. That's how strong I think of it. I. I'm a huge fan of yours own. Every album on CD and every album that's been released on vinyl, I've bought on vinyl as well. Anyway, I digress. I just want to thank you for the message that you put out there about seeing yourself in the studio with Jax and finding that you have, you know, a double chin and not liking your posture and being hard on yourself. Thank you because you know Jan. You make us laugh, you entertain us. You inspire us as as musicians, as creators, but you also remind us of some really fundamental things, and I've been so hard on myself. I'm starting a new job this week, and we're doing online training, and so I've got the camera in my face at all times, and I keep looking at myself and thinking, oh boy, stand stand straight, and maybe tilt your head this way, you look thinner if you look this way, if you look that way, if you look up, if you look down, we're so hard on ourselves, and even I, as a 44 year old male, I think about that stuff and it breaks my heart. And we are way too hard on ourselves. We need to be hard on ourselves for the real stuff that matters, but not that. And thank you simply for reminding us sorry about the multiple messages, but thank you for being you, Jen. I really appreciate

1:01:32  
every word, and it is. It's so true. You know, when Eliza was saying she didn't wash her hair and that she put lipstick on for this because she knew that this was also a visual podcast, because you can find us on YouTube, little plug there, and, you know, we do clips on social media, and it's always just like, Caitlin, you're right. Like, I just had to say I didn't like the way I was sitting and didn't like the way I looked. But then you catch yourself, right So, and here's a perspective from a guy, and it's warning us that you know, going into a new job and now you have to add a second tier of like fear and anxiety onto already doing the training like it's just, I don't know why we do it to ourselves. I think we almost want to be preemptive and do it before somebody else gets to it. Oh, I already know I look terrible. You don't have to tell me.

1:02:27  
And I'm so happy that, you know, Kim left us that voice note, and that left the voice note today, because we even wound up touching on it with Eliza. I mean, here's a an incredibly intelligent, accomplished woman, former first lady of Iceland. The accolades go on and on, and she's saying she still thinks about this, like, when she was appearing on camera, when she was in the public eye all the time, I mean, it kind of plagues everyone. And he's so right in saying, like, let's be hard on ourselves for the stuff that matters, because it truly is kind of a waste of our energy, which is such a finite resource, we just we don't need to spend so much time and be a good friend to yourself. I never think this about my friend. Why am I thinking about it for myself in that way? I wanted

1:03:02  
to make it a little easier for people to leave us voice notes. I'm going to start putting a link in the show notes that takes you right to the voice note page. So just look for that link in the show notes. If you have some thoughts on what we've been talking about and you want to leave

1:03:13  
your own we all appreciate one click link. Well, you know, that's our show for today. It was a good one. We appreciate you listening. Subscribe. If you can, you can listen to us on all your favorite streaming platforms. Give us a review that helps people find the podcast as well. And of course, when you subscribe, you don't, it just shows up in your mailbox week after week after week. We're well into season five. Eliza Reed was our guest. Thank you, Eliza, the Iceland writers retreat is going to be all the information is going to be there. And if you put in Jan Arden pod 5% off, which turns out to be hundreds of dollars, it is a little bit pricey, but like Eliza said, There's tours that are included. There's gift

1:03:52  
bags. Same thing about all the

1:03:55  
well, I will be there, Sarah, but yeah, it's going to be great. Whatever level you're at, whether you're a journal, journalist, a diarist, whether you write greeting cards or birthday cards, or whether you are just someone who's very curious about how to start that journey. I think there's going to be something for everyone. So until next time, guys, it's always a pleasure working with two wonderful people such as yourselves and yeah, we're just we're just plugging along. We will have more information about live events probably in the next month. We're just looking at calendars and we're looking at availabilities, and we're looking at venues and things like that. But we thought, let's start with a book bag and take it easy on all these announcements. And if you are a Patreon member, stick with us, because we're going to talk about is dating getting easier or harder. There's a little bit of a twist here. I thought it was getting easier, but apparently it's not getting easier. It's getting harder. And I also want to talk about Gen Z's being incapable of doing simple things like climbing up a ladder. They don't know how to. Climb up a ladder. I'm shaking my head. Join us on Patreon. If you're a Patreon member. If not, you can sign up and you can see all the new content until next time, guys, we appreciate you so much, and we'll talk to you soon. Totally. Do you?