Jax Irwin: I Didn't Get Sober to Die in a Lake

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Jan gracious. Good day, everyone. This is Jan Arden, and you're listening to the Jan Arden podcast and show. This is a particularly fantastic special podcast to start season five, ladies and gentlemen of the Jan Arden podcast, the first season had about 300 episodes. Anyway, I'm not at home. I'm here in Toronto. We are in Jax Irwin studio. Hello. I'm here with Caitlin green. Caitlin is not in her Hall. Oh, I'm not far from my home. You're not and Sarah Burke is sitting on the floor.

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Yes, there she is. Do you want a chair? Okay, she's she's young. I can sit cross legged for about 10 seconds, and then I really can't feel my neck or my shoulder or something. Sarah does CrossFit. She's fine. Oh yeah, I do cross stitch. See, that's the difference in our ages. Jack's Irwin intro, here we go. Okay? Media personality, host, digital creator and mayonnaise enthusiast, we got to talk about that. You are from Nova Scotia. You were on Toronto's former morning show. I was yes, Virgin radio. Virgin radio, the social your morning your most recent digital hit is called East Coast cold calls, which is different than East Coast cold Cox, which is not something that, I mean, many of us do. It's not, I'm not known to be into that series personally. Yeah, no, I'm a cock blocker myself. Okay, at a girl and a croc blocker.

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You know, crocs apparently stop people from having sex as well. Oh, wear the crocs. You're not going to get a I wear a croc. Walk. Okay. And you've probably seen Jax Irwin's social media posts on Tiktok Instagram, and you are our guest today. So welcome. Tell me everything. Thank you. Thank you. I mean, you, you nailed it all on the head. Like, I, I love mayonnaise, and I don't like hawks. So they, I mean, like, no, wow, really hard came in that came in fast and hard there. I like it. Yeah, I'm from Dartmouth, Nova Scotia, and I, yeah, I've been a media personality. I've been in radio and television, traditionally for over 10 years, and then a couple of years ago, I just kind of, you know, switched and transitioned into more digital, and I still eat mayonnaise on and off the air. Yeah, no, Hellman's makes a great vegan mayonnaise. So Hellman's, I'm telling you right now, if you need to sponsor a podcast, we could have Jack's on to talk about, I want you to try Hellman's vegan mayonnaise. You won't know. You won't miss the eggs. No, I'm Hellman's anything? Yeah, okay. Jax has rubbed herself in mayonnaise on more streets of Toronto than I think almost anyone else. I know. I don't like that. You know that? Is that a true story? It is. What does that even mean? Is it sunscreen? Tell me something I'm missing here. I mean, it's not, not sunscreen. It it makes the body, it doesn't make the body feel bad. I'll say that, and it's great for hair. I have heard that about mayonnaise in your hair. Well, listen, if you didn't think you were going to be learning something as far as skincare today, you're still not, because I don't think it's working. So right out of the gate, we have something in common, and I want to talk about it. Okay? Sobriety, yes, yes. So I'm 62 I quit drinking at the end of my 53rd year. I had stopped a couple of times in my life. In my 20s, I went from my late 20s to my early 30s. There was about six, seven years I didn't drink. And then, of course, I thought I was cured, and I thought I'll just have a glass of red wine with my girlfriend at the time, and that just didn't work out well. Then, you know, a decade went by, and then I stopped again for like, two or three years. So it's really been a cyclical problem for me. But now I'm, I really am done. Yeah, I'm coming up well, 10 years, and I want you to tell me a little bit about your

3:58  
alcohol journey, a little bit, and you don't have to answer anything you don't want to answer. But so you quit drinking. How many years ago? I just celebrated five years, yes, yeah, yeah, November. And I couldn't not drink for a week, you know, or a couple days. And, you know, I'm from the East Coast. Very

4:18  
interesting and complex relationship with alcohol to begin with, you know, you drink to celebrate, you drink to grieve, you drink when you're happy, you drink when you're sad. And I come from a family with a lot of alcoholism in it, so I was really set up for success. So I am, you know, it's all or nothing for me. I can't just have one drink. And I don't drink just to have one drink, you know. And that's not the way I've really ever done it. And, yeah, I, I lost my dad in 2018 and grief will do some wild things. And my drinking was just kind of my escape to that. And I, you know, I had had a very problematic, but like troublesome relationship with alcohol beforehand. I.

5:00  
Used it to escape. And it's like, you know, that's what you do. And I was trying, with everything I had in me, to escape back in 2018 so I was I was sad, I was mad, and people I loved, friends, family, you know, partners. I was letting them all down. And I don't want to be a lovely and happy and kind person, you know, 95% of the time and then be a goblin. So, yeah, like, it was the dance of moderation. I was like, Well, what if, you know, maybe I can just have a couple I can't, yeah, maybe I can just, what if I go a year and then don't have a I can't,

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like, I can't drink. And once I accepted that it was, it was really helpful. What was the day? That was the last time? I mean, without going into specifics, but did you wake up one morning and go, Holy fuck, that is that. I need to get help. I need to stop I need to do something. I need to change this. The last day I took a drink

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and my partner at the time, I let her down so completely

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and jeopardized our relationship time and time and time again, and she was so generous with her love and her patience and her support, and she had enough, and that was like, that was one of many straws, you know, and, yeah, she wanted to break up. And I think that was the first time that I looked at myself and I was like, Who are you becoming? And I had a great group of sober friends and, like, a community of recovery, and that's when I started going into the recovery community. Good for you. I couldn't look at myself anymore, and it's like, you know who? Who's this for? Like, you're letting everybody down. And I just also like to know you personally. So like to know Jack's from, like, working with her a bit, and then getting to know her and feeling like, like you said, you're 95% the nicest person you can ever meet. You're so sweet. I love the percentage, 95% you are good, yeah, but the 5% goblin will, like, it's like, it's not actually who you are. It's still not in line with your values and your identity when you're sober. Like, why am I hanging on to this? And I and one of the biggest things like, I, you know, the last day I took a drink, when I woke up and that hangover, and I was like, my dad would be so and it makes me want to cry, my dad would be so disappointed. Yeah, yeah, oh, Jan, don't come in my house, and then I cry like we're talking about mayo, and now I'm talking about my alcohol and my dead Dad, you are a wizard. My feelings, my dad is also dead. Yeah, he handed me alcoholism like a $20 bill. Oh, god, yeah, he was, he was a very, very difficult person to grow up with, and I always thought I won't be an alcoholic If I don't drink rum, like it was such a weird thing. I feel like, here's my line. Yeah, I

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never touched I know I wasn't Jackson Sparrow, and it's so funny. That was my thing. But I didn't have a drink of choice. Did you have a drink of choice? I would drink anything. What did you like to drink? And I said, like, whatever was cheapest, and whatever, whatever available. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I Yeah, I'm Gin and coke is not good. Gin and coke. Like I say, I don't like kalua. Would I drink it in a pinch? Probably,

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I got drunk one night many years ago on sambuca. Oh, my God, no, I was drinking it in a beer mug filled with crushed ice. Oh, I was so sick, and I did that for years, like the hangovers. It's amazing what you will like. If I didn't drink for three weeks, then I was fine. You know, I didn't drink for the three weeks. Well, as you get older, and I'm quite a bit older than you, it the recovery takes longer and longer. So I was in I was drunk once a week for sure, and then, really in recovery for four, five days, and then I'd finally start feeling better, and when I was feeling almost good again. Then I was on a chair. Oh yeah, you forget about how brutal it is that those hangovers are as soon as you're anxiety. Oh, the anxiety, the shame anxiety, the shame, the guilt, the fear, like it was paralyzing. And I just started doing virgin mornings. And I was like, This is my like, this is my dream job I've worked my entire life. And then I was like, getting anxious. I'm like, Who did I see? And I was like, this is how I'm gonna ruin everything. So, oh, no more Jan, no more Caitlyn. Virgin radio, you got the perfect job. You're working with a young fellow named Adam Myles, husband, your radio husband. Like, do you audition for pairings like that, for morning radio, because obviously, there's got to be some magic, you know, that I don't, because I just stumbled into my job ass backwards and never left. It's true, though, but they couldn't. They she became invaluable. That's the thing to do. You don't just stumble in and stay. You can stumble in and they'll let you go real quick. You know, you stayed, and the chemistry on that show. Oh my god, you guys were so good. Oh so much fun, truly, yeah, and that is really, it's like chemistry. That's really what it is coming in, having fun every morning, and I was down the hall from Jack's studio with Adam. The laughs you would hear, and Marilyn would like to leave our studio door open for like a cross breeze, she would call it, but we couldn't, because of how loud they were laughing, we'd pick.

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Up on charm. It's, it's like, it's guttural. His laugh is guttural, and I love it. It's hypnotizing. Yeah, yeah. So you're doing a morning show on, you know, one of the biggest stations in the city. So how do they know that your rapport is going to work? We're gonna say repertoire, which is also true. Yeah, we have worked together on Adam and I both came. I got the job at kiss 92 five with Rogers. That's how I came to Toronto, and Adam was the afternoon guy and I was the midday girl. And we, we didn't cross paths a ton, like with the show a little bit, but we became friends, you know, a few years in, and we had wonderful chemistry anyways. And so when they were building the new morning show on Virgin. It was my old program director, and she knew that we had kind of a vibe together. And then we started doing recordings, and, you know, sessions together and coaching and stuff like that. And,

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yeah, just it just gelled. I think sometimes you do have to audition together. And then the third, the third little magical piece was TJ, our third, our third person, and the three of us together. It just like it made, you know, it made so much sense. So yeah, and you guys started filming your show pretty early on. So you know, you had a lot of viral moments over the years, of conversations that you guys had, you know, you you guys were always very, very open. I mean, Adam went through a divorce. You being a queer person in the queer community. So, I mean, the conversations that you had weren't always these mainstream conversations, yeah, they were conversations that took you outside of maybe what your listenership was, although virgin radio is a bit of a younger demo, yeah, than c8 you know, then it was so like, of the Bell Media portfolio. It was very much that virgin was younger, and then chum was a little bit older, and there was definitely listener crossover, for sure, chum was the boss and Virgin was the rowdy teenager in the back, like we chum was. Chum was bringing it in. But were you guys surprised by some of the I know you got letters, I know you got a lot of feedback via email or text or whatever it is, people writing into the station on some of the things that you were talking about. And this is morning, people are getting out of bed, yeah, they're in their car. And you guys hit on, I mean, it was funny, but there was also some moments where we're that were pretty emotional, yeah? And like, I mean, when we started the show, it was 13 months before the pandemic started, so which so we were thrown just going. We were just, we were thrown into this like, world where, like, we were so lucky, because the level of intimacy that we were able to have with our listeners was so different because we were, like, updating and learning while we were updating. Like the world was, you know, in crisis, and it Yeah, it created this Yeah, level of intimacy and trust with our listeners that we were really lucky about. And I mean, my biggest goal in radio in general was just to get, you know, maybe a job on c1 100 and Halifax and like, and then after that, like, c1 I love c1

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legendary, legendary c1 100. So fantastic. Anything after that was like, Oh my goodness. So, like the fact that I could talk on morning radio in Toronto, but like being a queer woman who has, like, you know,

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any issues going on in general, it's seven nipples and a male injection nipples. But it was, it was so cool. And we got, you know, messages and emails and stuff, and folks have been so nice, and a lot of them have followed Adam and I, and like, I don't know. I'm just incredibly, incredibly grateful for it. So, yeah, did you would ever have imposter syndrome? Because we've talked about that a little bit too. Oh yeah, we get into these places in our lives, and we feel like they're gonna they're gonna get on to me, they're gonna figure out that I am not qualified for this. Did you ever feel that way all the time? I feel it all the time. It's subsiding a bit, but I still have it all the time. And I'm like,

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do they know, like, do they know that they've made the wrong choice? And there was certain points in my career, especially doing mornings, where, like, I was reminded, like, you are not the traditional choice. I'm a mask presenting queer woman and, um, not often, I had a lot of wonderful support at Bell. And, like, folks were really nice. But like, sometimes throughout my career over the decade, people were reminded, like, you know, be very grateful for where you are, like, you're lucky. And it was like, so I couldn't sometimes decipher, like, am I here because of hard work, or am I here because I'm lucky? And that's where the imposter syndrome sneaks in. Well, you're always gonna have some dick weed reminding you that, you know, yeah, you know what, it's pretty you're pretty fortunate to be in the position, yeah, yeah. Do women do that to men? I don't think so. I'm gonna start going around telling but I just don't think women have that conversation. Don't forget, yeah, you know, yeah, you're pretty lucky to be in the position you're in. And it's a control thing, and it's also like a fear thing, I think too, right? It's like, you know, yeah. But to keep you in your place, just as a reminder, no matter how successful you get, you're going to have somebody telling you, oh, I don't, yeah. So, and that's either my own brain or somebody, you know, in the business, right? Yeah. So I was sent to vocal classes because everyone was like, Well, you don't have, like, a traditional radio voice. What?

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Because my voice is deep, and so loved your voice. Thanks, Jack, your voice, man. But I remember that being, you know, presented to me as one of the many hurdles, in addition to having, like, brown hair and glasses about like, me being on the air, because I didn't start on the air. And so it was like, I have to, you know, go to vocal lessons. I have to, like, go do all this stuff. And I remember even feeling at that point like, I was like, okay, because I'm not presenting as like a WEATHER GIRL, yeah, this is going to be a problem for me. Like you're the you're feeling a little niche here, but you're only ever going to go this far. I was like, that's kind of annoying. Yeah, it's it has nothing to do with your talent, nothing to do with your

15:43  
so you're in the dream job. You guys are doing morning radio on Virgin. You're having a great time. You basically have a TV show because there's multi cameras going on. You're, you know, doing all this stuff now you're making a decision to move away from that and to do something entirely differently in the digital world. So I don't, I can't even imagine what that thought process is like. Yeah, you know, terrifying. It's terrifying. I guess that's not a thought process. That's just, it is terror. Just terror, no, um, terrifying and exhilarating. And, I mean, I had been, I've been getting, you know, I had a job, whether it was Sobeys or radio or random little jobs, I'd had a paycheck every two weeks since I started working. So the idea of

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not having that, not having that security blanket, I guess, was terrifying. And there was a lot of different things kind of going on the you know, the show was going in a different direction for the morning show, and I had some options to stay in a different capacity. And I don't think, you know, I said to myself, I was like, I didn't get sober to be small, and I did, you know, I hadn't really said like that, yeah, I hadn't really make T shirts. I hadn't said I hadn't said yes to myself in that way in a long, long time. And, like, been like, you know, instead of what's the worst thing that could happen, what's the best thing that could have happened, you know, at the time I was about to get married, I yeah, like, I had all these, like, financial,

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financial ties that, like, on paper, wouldn't have been a good idea for me to go freelance, but I was like, You know what? I've been broke before I can figure it out, and I just wanted to see what was on the other side. So that's a really long way of saying that I was terrified,

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and it's worked out really well. Yeah, and knock on. I don't know if this is real, but yeah, Facebook, whatever marketplace would it's worked out really well. But I just, yeah, I didn't get sober to shrink. I was already shrinking when I was drinking. So, yeah, that runs up.

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Well, listen,

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Anthony Hopkins, no, Anthony, it was Hopkins, I saw this today on your idea. So Anthony Hopkins, I don't know if it was yesterday or today, but he just announced that he's been sober for 46 years, no way. And he's never talked about and I knew that he was sober. I didn't realize it was that guy, but he literally said one day at a time, yeah, which sounds like such a cliche, and it just makes people mad, but it's true. You just deal with the moment. You just you don't deal with two weeks from now. And he's just like, it's the best thing he ever did. He said he'd be long since dad life on those two kept going, Yeah, I definitely would be dead. But anyway, I digress. Caitlin is now going to speak to these crazy, wonderful, magical, hysterical East Coast cold calls. Okay, so again, if you don't already follow Jax on social media, you need to, because her social media game is very, very good, and you've always been like a person who I feel like leads with lulz, like you're very funny and like charming and warm and welcoming. That's the maritimer in you. And I, I lived in Halifax for a few years. My husband's from house. You're a maritime. I like you. I forget that you're not sometimes, because I feel like you're a maritime. And my dad's from Pei, so I get it, and it's this gift of chat. So you turned the gift of gab that all maritime errs naturally have into this idea to call random phone numbers in the Maritimes and record it and just see how long they would stay on the phone on the line with you. Yeah. And then you were like, well, we'll just see Yeah. And I've been asked, like, how did this come about? And I want to have, like, a much more, like, polished or, like, concise story, but I literally, I saw some tick talkers that they do praying calls. And I, I've always liked praying calls, but I don't like the joke being at somebody's expense. I love self deprecating humor. I love dry humor, but I don't like when somebody doesn't know what's going on, or somebody doesn't understand. You know, what the what the butt of the joke is So, and that's mostly what the prank calls online were. So I actually called an East Coast like, a business. I looked up the Yellow Pages and I called, but it felt bad, because, like, they were busy, you know, like, and they're like, What do you need, darling? Because, like, they want to help, but they've, like, it was.

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The Tims on Sackville drive. No way. Yeah, and, and then I was like, Oh, I can't, I can't even do this. I don't have the guts to do this. Like, buck up. But then the other, like, the there was a, it was like, Yellow Pages, do one of those things. And it had, it had, like, a little button to go to the white pages. So I clicked on the white pages. And then I just, I think, I called somebody random in Sydney. And I didn't even know what was going to happen, but she didn't ask who it was. So we just kept talking. And I was like rolling. I was filming and recording it. And then she told me all about her basement and all about her sub pump, sump pump, and she goes, you know, she said, who she's going to see? And she said, it's been pouring outside, and then it was just, it's like, rain and bucket, yeah. And then we and then I posted it, and like, there was no like bit. What I'm trying to say is no big plan behind this. It just was, like, I was calling somebody, like, sounded like, banana, yeah, yeah. And then it just, it's kept going. Do you think it's a bit of a

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conversation about loneliness and people's perhaps need to have someone to talk to. I think it's Yeah. I think it's because I'd just be hanging up. Listen, you got the wrong number. I mean, it would never, I would never be part of something like that. I just know. But it does make me wonder, what keeps people on a line? You're not asking for money. No, you're not saying, Give me your credit card information. You're not saying, Listen, you need to deposit $500 in western fucking union. You're literally just say, just having a conversation. When people stay on the line like that and they're willing to give information, it certainly is a statement about what, what's happening to us as a community of people. And it's like, you know, because people say they're like, how do they not ask who you are? Let's be clear. Like, if I make 20 calls, 19 of those people have asked, but the second that they ask, Who is this, I'm like, oh, sorry. Is this not Paula? And then I'll be Oh, shoot, okay, sorry, both that got the wrong number. And they're, like, not a problem, darling, and they're still nice, and you're still nice, yeah, they're not the brunt of the joke, exactly. And I don't also, I don't want to, like, there's, I mean, as we all, like you just mentioned, there's scams. I'm not out to freedom with anybody, right? Like, I don't want to, yeah, but I think it's a bigger theme of connection, and I think that especially

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just having a warm because I'm not asked for any information. Like, you know, talk, did you see the snow that came down last week? They're like, yes, my God, you know, like, they're excited. It's just connection. And a lot of people say, you know, like, oh, they must be so lonely. I don't know if they're lonely or just sweethearts, that's what I that's Yeah, I think that they I don't even think they're lonely. Sometimes I think that they're just kind or sometimes they're like, is this Brenda? And they're too proud to be like, yeah, yeah. Kind a little confused, yeah. I feel like I'm an average maritime or with a landline. Yeah, that's what you're gonna get. There's a solid chance you're gonna get that in Toronto, like, 416, I don't think so. But when I go out east, that really is the vibe, and people are down to chat. Oh, and I think that's why people like watching it is because it's like, it's kind of nice, it's nice. And it's like, I It's nice to show off the Maritimes too. Because, my God, like, you know, the world may be garbage sometimes, but like, you can count on, like, somebody in Amherst looking to talk, you know, like, it's true. Eisen, Kate Breton, oh, God, I was staying. This is years and years ago, very, very early 90s, probably my first record, and I was doing a promo junket, and we stayed at a little Cape Breton place, and in the morning, my manager and I, at the time, we were going to do morning radio, and so they had organized a taxi to pick us up at this hotel and bring us into wherever we were going. And so this woman picked us up, and she was having a cigarette, and she had the window cracked, and that was fine, having a dart, Yep, yeah, no, I smoked back in the day. And anyways, we went for quite a, quite a while. I'm gonna say, like, 2025, minutes, and I'm looking and the meters not running. I'm like, it's got to be a flat rate from where we are. Yeah, I'm not even, I'm not gonna say anything, because she knows what she's doing. Yeah. And we got there and I said, Oh, how much do we owe you? Oh, no, no, that you're fine. I You were right on my way to going to work. And I'm like, Isn't this your work? Like, like, and she said, No, I It's on my way to starting my day in town. Yeah. Oh no, no, no, I'm just picking you up on the way. I'll never forget that as long as I live. Like, and I we literally threw $40 in the back, salt of the earth, yeah. Well, maybe it was $2 but we did throw some money in there. So we insist, yeah, that she takes some money, yeah. And I like, there's, um, there's a

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lot of darkness out there. And I think just, you know, highlighting some of the warm sometimes, like those, like warm interactions where people are just being kind to each other's is a beautiful thing. Whether you throw a 20 or or a 20, whatever you're throwing up. We were throwing nickels and dials half or pennies back then. Yeah, no, no, I just it, just, it's a real Cape Breton memory for me of just how earnest she was. And just matter of fact, no, I'm literally, I.

25:00  
Had to go buy this hotel for me to go to my job use. Were on the way. Let's go. It's exactly Let's go. Also, because you slip into the East Coast accent really easily, yes. And so I think that they assume, Oh, I'm talking to a local or maybe someone's kid who I've met, or who knows. And so it keeps going on and on. It's kind of like the gift that keeps on giving. Conversationally, I pretend that they're one of my aunts, and then I think that they pretend I'm somebody at the superstore, and then we're just talking, and what are you doing today? Oh, no, stop your trouble. The ladies of the East Coast love to be called trouble. Once you you're not getting into any trouble, are you gonna stop it? Maybe a bit. What are you gonna do about it? Like they're wild? Yeah,

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you're

25:44  
another world. I I mean, our prank calls in the 70s were like, you know, is your refrigerator running? Well, you better go catch it like that's the kind of Arsenal now it's a whole bit we were, yeah, no. I mean, tick talkers, there's a lot of pages dedicated to calling people and just getting them on the phone and seeing what happens like I never I stumble across the lives. There's some pretty outlandish characters. There's, Oh, there's one, a lady that talks in the really low voice with the wig. She's incredible. Have you ever seen her not in dress like not dressed up? She's very cute. She's very, very beautiful. She does that voice by sucking in her dog like that. Yeah, and she sounds like this old woman from Alabama. Have you ever seen I know I have her name. I'm blank. Do you know I'm talking Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. She and she puts on like a mullet, and she sounds like she's smoking 80 darts. She's incredible. She's so funny. I like her. There's another tick tocker I like. But sometimes she pretend, or he pretends that he knows the people which I don't like. It's like, you know, like gas, like, overall, questioning our sanity. These days I'm standing in my closet, like once a week, wondering why I'm there. Yeah, am I packing a suitcase?

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Yeah, was I looking for the dog, and now you're here, and now you're here, yeah, is this real or a dream? I don't even know how I got here in this purple in this purple East End room. I like it. It's very chic. Thank you. It really is. When we got here today, I'm not gonna lie, there was a very young woman in here steaming the curtain behind Jax it was, she was steaming the curtain. And I'm like, when I walked in, I'm like, Jax Erwin has a team of five women that are running her Empire like it was very impressive. And there's so many snacks downstairs. There's Oreos, there's nachos, there's some kind of gummy bear with

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Yeah, yeah, I ate a lot of those. Listen, okay, first of all, I had to get the goods. God damn it. Sarah's off camera telling you to sit. You know what's nice? You know what's nice about this? Though, people can see their own eyes because I canceled shows like she started days ago, and you never canceled five shows in 35 years. That's crazy. I was so sick. I don't know how I got through Brandon and Saskatoon. It's like a dream to me that I was out there singing and I kept apologizing to people. I'm just like, I'm really sorry.

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Rather than cancel, I thought we just would get through this together. It was there was so much shame and so much embarrassment.

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I don't know how I got through it. And I was literally crying going home from Saskatoon because we flew home on a little plane. The reason we flew is just so that I could have a day off. There was one day off between the Calgary shows. And, you

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know, when you cry, it just makes things worse. And I was just crying out of sheer frustration of getting through six weeks and then getting a cold and thinking I could get past it, and the day before I, you know, pulled the trigger and had but there's so many things that have to happen to cancel a show. Yeah, there's a it is. There's so many people involved. There's so many things that have to happen. The refund policy, if you're going to keep your ticket, we've actually, you know, given people three options. This has nothing to do with me. This is what management does. This is the emergency stuff they go into. And Bruce, my manager, Bruce Allen, called me and he said, This is what we do. And he said, we make it work. And you know, you come first, and your health and well being comes first. Because I'm just I'm not one of those people that takes that lightly. You

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Oh,

29:24  
that's so interesting that you get shame and guilt. Like, Oh, shame, you listening. Shame you sing like you need, like, that's your tool. And you're like, ah, gotta, I gotta get through this fight. It come on combat like, that's like you are in combat mode, and adrenaline can do so much, like when you get out there. But I had no upper range, and I was kind of cheering in. In rehearsals, we were trying to figure out how I could sing them in a different way, but I could hardly, like, get around to do it. And then the last night, I hurt some. I literally felt something go ping, kind of in my throat, and I thought, No, this is.

30:00  
Where it stops, but it maybe it's part of what women do as well, is like constantly, you know, trying to prove ourselves and to just not let anybody down. Like, I'm not a mom, but I can't imagine what women go through to make sure it's the perfect Christmas Day, to make sure that this goes right. Nobody getting smaller and smaller and sicker and blah blah. My mom never used to eat Christmas dinners. I remember my mom for 25 years. I will, I will. I just want to. There's so what are we missing? Oh, my God, there's great. I knew there was a green bee casserole in the microwave, and then she'd be sitting there by the sink eating this dinner, and I wish I could go back in time and fucking do a goddamn dish for her, or be more helpful or but she martyred herself the whole time I was growing up. Yeah, everybody else first. Yeah, yeah. Well, talking to Jack serwin, I just want to make sure everyone knows who we're talking with today. Media sensation, media Thank you, Jen. I'm telling you, you're how old are you? 31 No, no. 33 No, 34 you don't even have to tell me. 36

31:11  
oh my gosh, 36 I was such a train wreck at 36 you always say this, I was Jan. Makes Sarah and I feel better about our lives all the time. Oh, my God, what you all are doing. Yeah, I was an absolute. Do you remember that movie runaway train when they're like, losing fingers in between, trying to unhook them, and it's just gonna speed off into the oblivion? That was me at 36 well, you fooled me. I thought you would have had it together by 36 No, really thinking insensitive, good mother. Come on. Yeah, I'm like,

31:44  
I don't know rock star, superstar,

31:47  
runaway trip, that's right, Jax, rock star, superstar. I want to, okay, I want to know so many I know I can look at her and just know I'm just going, like this, no, because I well, I know jack, so I feel like I have, like, a pretty like, I've got my solid background knowledge of jacks, but I want to know what your advice would be to baby jacks. So if you had to, like, look back in time, yeah, what? What are you telling sweet, sweet baby Jack, stop drinking. Okay, that's one, that's one thing though. Don't start, yeah, don't start drinking. Oh, my God,

32:21  
that's really hard. Really hard. And that's, like, such, like, a, you know, a beautiful and, like, seemingly sweet question. But I far, it's hard. I

32:30  
mean, drinking can be your Yeah, you know, don't also, but also, I,

32:36  
I don't regret the past, because I also wouldn't know, like, you know, I wouldn't have learned the lessons that I have, or I also maybe wouldn't have known that I can't drink. Like, if, maybe, if I didn't drink as much, I wouldn't have quit drinking till I was in my 50s also. So I don't want to regret anything. No, hello,

32:55  
but, but you were you had stopped before that too.

32:58  
My God, swinging on that rope is not fun. No, the back and forth,

33:04  
you're so disappointed in yourself. So kudos to you. I'm telling you. Well, light years I had but one day at a time, you never know what. No, I'm not gonna make any weird, dark jokes. Okay? No, I'm gonna stay sober today. The one thing I know is I'm never safe from it, so I never let my guard down. No, ever I ask if there's alcohol and desserts? Yeah? Like, tiramisu, yeah, when they're lighting fucking cakes on fire, no, at the table, I'm like, What the fuck is on there? And they're like, No, all the alcohol burns away. I'm like, No, I think I'll pass I love when somebody's like, well, you can have a sip. And I'm like, Oh, you you want me to ruin your night? Like, do you want to? Do you want I'll ruin your life? You're so not yourself. No, I don't know who walks into your body as a drunk person, but it is

33:45  
mysticism, and it is just like a portal into a realm of Hell, yeah? And I like saying, you know, they say, Oh, the truth comes out when you're drunk. No, it doesn't. I would just say things that, like, you know, and I've said hurtful or angry things to people that I don't meet, like, that's not what I think in my conscience. It's just like, whatever will get you going, you know. And that's not who I want to be. So now it's a depressant. I think that's the other thing to remember, yeah, like, it's a real substance. It's a depressant. Yeah, it's designed to bring you to a dark place and, like, keep you there for as long as your hangover lasts, and as you age, that's longer and longer. So I kind of get, listen, I can get myself into a dark place without, without alcohol. Okay, let's I'm in a very dark place right now. No together, just but advice to my younger self,

34:34  
make it dark here, baby jacks, I would say,

34:38  
live free and like laugh a little bit more like, because I always, I think I'm learning to be softer and sillier as I get older, and now those are parts that I

34:49  
didn't like really nourish or like, didn't think that were good parts. And I want to be soft and I want to be silly, and I want to be more open and not closed. And I want to, yeah, I want to live life.

35:00  
And I think I was, yeah, I was pushing all that down for a long time and just be silly. I don't know, life short. It's so funny knowing you, because it's like, that seems to me very how you are. But it obviously takes a long time to get there to be comfortable with that part of yourself, until, like you said, nourish that part of it does. But it's also a very, like, it's a mask. So, like, you know, so like, I want to use it as a way of living and not just a mask. Now, right? Because those are, like, the parts that I like myself, and those are a lot of parts that I liked my dad, and like my dad was very soft. So yeah, I love that. Yeah, the fact that you are saying the words out loud is a triumph,

35:34  
because just getting to the point in your life as a young human being to say things out loud, takes an incredible amount of vulnerability. And I love the idea of, you know, strength. People think it's it's all about this muscling up, but it is a softness. Strength is vulnerability. And I just really admire you for that. You should be really proud of yourself because you're just getting going. I say this to this girl, these girls all the time, is that I didn't really even become a person, a formed critical thinking person, I don't think till I was in my late 40s, maybe even 50. And I know that's an easy thing for me to say at 62 but I also remember being your age and just you guys are just so women these days are so mighty, and I think you guys have created space for each other that you can have good friends that can absorb your fears and absorb your shortcomings and your failings. And I think women have come a long way from the pettiness of, you know, enjoying seeing people down, yeah, because that office mentality sometimes, but you obviously have really good friends, and that's a triumph, too. I'm surrounded by wonderful, wonderful, especially wonderful women,

37:00  
you know. And I think, like, I don't want to have transaction, you know. I don't want to have simple,

37:07  
you know, AOE conversations. I want to connect with women, and I want to talk. And I want to have, like, when I ask you how you are, I want to know how you really are. And I don't want, you know, I there's this beautiful depth, like, you know, that I have with you. And like, the women that are in my house and even Sarah on the floor, no, you don't want a chair, all right? She is cross leg fit over here. Why don't you have the other beer? Yeah, yeah, to do it all. But I don't. I want to have depth in my friendships and my relationships now, and it's, yeah, it's a beautiful thing. So thank you. Caitlin, had a fantastic idea going into season five of our podcast, and we are probably going to wrap up each episode with this kind of a question, and I'm going to just hand it over to Caitlin, because I think it's a great idea. And I think we want to spend 2025, helping people, lifting them up a little bit, getting them over the humps, certainly talking about our screw ups, and you know what, massive, like accidents that we are having emotionally. But I think this is a good way to kind of go into the last part of our Yes, when we're not having emotional accidents, I would generally be curious to know how you recharge. Like, what do you do for yourself to find self care? Yeah,

38:21  
I walk. I walk. And it's like, I've always liked walking. I love walking through nature, but I really like walking around the city. And it got a little out of control during the pandemic. I would just like walk and film garbage, different garbage, and I would make content. I'll show I'll show you later. But I love, I look, I love, I love walking, and I, I don't like to bring headphones. I want to hear it all. And I, I carry that on now, I do it. Yeah, I walk every day. And like, water in any, in any form, to me is, is recharging. I think that's like an ocean thing. So, like, I don't you're either gonna judge me or love this like I do cold plunges sometimes down,

39:05  
down in the East End, your plunger. You're I know that her face is no no. I just feel like people could have a heart attack, like the science is very wishy washy on the cold plunges. I'm just gonna say that I'm not. This is not a science. I don't want to die in Lake Ontario. God Janet. Just saying older, a lot of older people are arresting their hearts like they're having they're going into the shock. But I mean, obviously there's, there's pre existing issues. They're always just saying to people, listen, if you're going to do this and you're 60 plus years old, check with your doctor. That's the only reason I'm issuing a warning on our show. Is because Cynthia Loyce, she is a fucking cold plunger for life now, yeah, whenever I talk to her, you know, oh, don't tell me you're going to cold plunge like she does. Yeah? But I just, I think we would be remiss not to say to people, you.

40:00  
Don't go. Just jump in a goddamn Lake. Check with your doctor. Plunge safely, everyone. No, our audience may not be under 30. That's all I'm telling you absolutely. And you know what, the youngest person on this podcast, I you know what? I hate cold plunging, and I don't trust it. I think, I think, yeah, yeah. Fuck. Cold plunging. Okay. No, I'm just saying no. And I think it's really in Banff, they have cold, colder and coldest. No, they have like three. You can start out kind of cold and then get colder and then fucking go coldest, or you can go the other way. You can go coldest, colder, cold, and then get into the goddamn hot tub. Am I being the harbinger of doom? I'll stick to walking around,

40:43  
walking around the city. She wants you on dry land. Yeah, she is concerned about our cardiovascular I didn't get sober to die in the lake. You're right. You're right. You're absolutely in Lake Ontario. Yes, no, yeah. I imagine you went to like, other ship or something. Other ship, like the pocket can't afford that all the time. Yeah? Other ship.

41:02  
Sponsor us. Yeah. Other shit. They have money. Yeah. Other ship, let's talk. Did you have resolutions? Are you going to keep any of them, or are they something that you don't even give a shit about? Like, did I have resolutions last year? No going into 2025 like, this is our first episode of 2025, and of season five. No pressure. Be brave. Be brave. Be brave, whatever that looks like. Yeah, yeah. Okay, 11, yeah. Okay. Jack serwin, this is Jan Arden podcast, and if you're gonna cold plunge, check with your doctor. And if you're over 60, just don't, okay, yeah, don't do are you calling me old? No, no, but you said that. No, I think your yoga is beautiful. They go in, they don't come out again, because your hearts have stopped. I think you are a healthy mermaid, okay, healthy cold plunging mermaid, and your heart's Great, yeah? Jack serwin, we'll go into the biggest, nicest tub. It's a soaker. And I would cold plunge in there, yeah? Just with cold tap water. I would go in fully clothed with Crocs and prop that would be the extent of my cold plunging. I filled it up with mayo one time. I'll show you that later, too. Holy shit on that note, okay, that's all we got time for today. Jack serwin, thank you so much. Jen Arden podcast. Caitlin green. Sarah Burke is on the floor. Become a patreon member. Five bucks a month gets you so much bonus content. You saw me blowing my nose and things like that here. Just imagine what the extra content is like. We go all out, all out, and we're gonna have a book club. What else are we doing? Caitlin, this year? I don't know. Maybe we'll have live events. We'll do a topless episode. I'm just kidding. I don't know. They'll go cold, plunging with there's no reason we there's no reason we can't do a show with brass on, okay? You know, wonder bra. I wore my Wonder bra on the plane to England. My it had no wires. It's just a nice, soft, foamy thing. My boobs were so comfortable for nine hours and 15 minutes I forgot that I had a bra on. In fact, when I woke up and went to the bathroom on the plane, I got in there, and I was kind of brushing my teeth, you know, refresh yourself after one of my breasts had come out of the cup,

43:07  
it was so comfortable that I didn't even realize that I had my right breast out of the cup on the run and on the run. No, what concerned me Jax is like, do I not have sensation? Am I lacking sensation? To know that the support just released itself, and now I have one breast out and one breast that's how comfortable the bra it's. That's how comfortable they are. Anyway, god damn it. This has been the Jarden podcast. Jack serwin has been our guest, and we are going to be doing, tell me, are we going to be doing a cold call with this woman? We sure are going to be doing a cold call. Okay? And how are we going to tell people what? What What are we going to do to be seeing that? Is that going to be on Jax Irwin's? So we'll put the we'll put Jack says, All the links to Jack's socials and everything in our show notes. And also just look up Jax Irwin on social media if you haven't already, go follow j, x, j, A, X, and follow W, I N, and fall in love with her on these cold calls, because I'll tell you, they've become such a hit that Jax and I went to together. Yeah, first of all, look at the studio. Look at the women who are steaming curtains, but she I don't know there was a makeup artist. There's a snack table, but we went to breakfast. And when we were there, the breakfast place is known for their famous donuts. They came over with a plate of free donuts because they were like, We and our parents love your East Coast cold calls. And I was like, I'm sitting with a damn celebrity now. So no, it's true. I paid them.

44:31  
Yeah, I paid them. So you could tell the Jack serwin podcast, you I love you guys are so amazing, and I love you, and thank you for having me. And it's like, I think I've teared up softly and then had to look away quite a few times. You are a legend, I noticed. And I love you guys both, and thank you for having me on, like, tremendously. Well, let's, let's circle back, which is a slogan that I hate, but we're going to, we'll see you next time. Totally

44:59  
do.