Meredith Shaw: A New Chapter at Breakfast Television

Jann Arden  0:00  
Good morning, and welcome to the Jann Arden podcast. I come to you now as a very frustrated individual.

I am doing this on my phone. Everybody else who looks fantastic. Meredith Shaw is our guests. Let me get that right off the top I O. Without any further ado, I'm not going to ramble on about my crap. Caitlin given her just desserts. Kaitlyn knows you better than anybody. Okay,

Caitlin Green  0:31  
okay. Okay, wait multitalented Novia icon, who can not only sing a little known fact about Meredith that she's an excellent singer. You probably know her from taking over national morning television on breakfast television, previously of charm previously have the social, the most body positive, gorgeous, effervescent bottle of champagne that just opens up on camera every day for you. It is none other than Meredith Shaw, everybody.

Meredith Shaw  0:59  
Oh my gosh. Well, I'm really glad you did that Caitlyn Jenner, because that was great.

Jann Arden  1:07  
You guys were together for so long. And you guys have got lots of bail stories, which you know, we have a do not resuscitate speaking about bail. So

that was called now. Yeah, that's the clause. Tell me everything Meredith

that's going on in your life. I mean, you you have just been absolutely doing such a brilliant job on breakfast television. That is comes out of Toronto, and it goes right across the country every morning. And we see your shining face and the wonderful people that you work with have just embraced you. They have really adapted around the Meredith Shaw phenomenon about what Caitlyn mentioned, body positivity, the clothing aspect and styling any body any body shape. For any occasion, they've kind of incorporated that part of what you brought to the show. How do you feel about how they have really embraced you and cheered you on?

Meredith Shaw  2:06  
For so I'm so excited to be here. I love this podcast. I'm a big fan of the podcast. That's all the time we have. Okay. I really Yeah, I really am. I didn't know if you'd have a little neon because I'm here in Chelsea Handler and I've done me these are like big, big guests. You've been on the show before Meredith. I know. But you know, I anyway, I'm thrilled to be here. I love all three of you. Thank you for having me. And, yeah, it I like that you have called that out a little bit jam. Because it's true. The The show has been super supportive of welcoming me in a in a really active way. Like I think sometimes that can get said or people can say that about their co workers or, but it's really kind of a visceral environment. And I think that's why the show works and connect so much is because they really focus on the people that make it up not only sort of the host but right back to our audience. I mean, who we have on the show what we celebrate on the show, well we give spotlight to on the show. It's, it's really specific. And I think that specificity allows the show to be even more kind of universally accepted. You know what I mean? Like sometimes stuff is too broad. And I think we really get into the nitty gritty of sometimes too nitty gritty, quite frankly, of the goings on in my life and my blood family and my relationship and but you know, you kind of got to give it all. But then he walked out and about in life and you know, then people kind of know all these little bits and pieces about you and the the relationships that I that I have with people ongoing is a really beautiful thing. But it's still stumps. My mother, my mother is still like, Do you know them? And I think no, oh, no. I mean, not specifically, but you know, kind of, and then the next person they'll come up. Are they your friend? Well, yeah. So it's been a beautiful thing. A lovely thing. Yeah. Big addition.

Jann Arden  4:06  
Yeah, being a public person. I'm sure for parents and friends that you know, you can be in a restaurant you can be out there with four of your friends, having a drink and the server, just be lines it to you asks you for your drink order and walks away and everyone else is sitting there going, are they gonna take my drink order, and people just get excited? I got to meet your mom be sure.

Meredith Shaw  4:24  
That was very special. I mean, I can't think about it too hard or I'll get emotional. Although you taught me gentlemen, that crying is not a bad thing. You don't have to be concerned about people when they cry cry is his joy coming out of your body. And I love that. That makes so much sense to me because I often get emotional when things mean something to me. And I was a bit embarrassed about that part of myself. But you're you came on breakfast television, you're like No, no. Emotions are a good thing. And and tears sometimes mean the opposite of what everyone associates tears with. So it was great very joyful for me to have you meet my mother. We've shared oh, gosh, just so many conversations about about you, Jan over the years. Because you were such a, ya know, we have you were such a, a central beacon for me growing up, just I don't know, I'm just looking at you and think right now the truth, it's the truth. I mean, I go on other podcasts and they don't understand what I'm talking about. I gotta say it on this podcast. Yeah, it's, it was it was very special to be able to stand there and sort of, you know, introduce my mother to you. She loved us and love the craft services back backstage at your show. Oh, yeah.

Jann Arden  5:45  
I think we had a cherry tomato on a bottle of water. It was. It

Meredith Shaw  5:51  
was good. It was it was a fantastic show. And then that was the show the tour the wrong with the wonderful Rick Mercer and you thank acapella, good mother for us because it was it was Mother's Day.

Jann Arden  6:02  
The girls came to Kaitlyn and Sarah were both there. The evening. No. Did you guys come to the afternoon? Yeah, we

Caitlin Green  6:09  
were the evening show, evening show. And

Jann Arden  6:10  
that was the only time I sang across the country was was just Mother's Day. I figured. How have you been doing as far as getting up in the mornings? Dare I say? Yeah,

Meredith Shaw  6:22  
you dare. I mean, it's the reality. It's, it's early. It's Kayla knows this. So Wow. No, it's well, so

Caitlin Green  6:30  
does Meredith too, though, like you are not unfamiliar with it. Because Mara Meredith was Marilyns, longtime vacation felon on the chum morning show. So Mara Mara, than I would say, I'm gonna keep doing this because your name start

Meredith Shaw  6:41  
with my mother's name is also Maryland. So I've been called Marilyn and Meredith, and then it just sort of continue, then it's a great compliment. Yeah. Yeah,

Caitlin Green  6:48  
it is ultimately, but so Meredith and I together would like be side by side before the sun came up running vampire hours at charm. But it's very different than what you're doing now. Because you have to be full glam. Now, like now you're on TV doing full glam. So that is a different and you always looked fabulous in the morning, like I would roll out of my Uber, like air like a wash like now like right now. Yeah. And I would look over to my right, and you just see Meredith would have a ring light on and she'd be like doing her makeup. And I was like, Okay,

Meredith Shaw  7:21  
this is why your radio is on television. Now. Like it you've really gotten used to mica you rolled in and did the thing but now it's. There's more. More to

Caitlin Green  7:32  
that. Yeah. Meredith was just like, hello. Anyway. So yeah, you knew it from then.

Meredith Shaw  7:36  
Well, yeah, I mean, the that whole process, I look, I find all that stuff fun. I really do. I mean, I think it's a really interesting form of expression. I've always had so much respect and love for makeup artists and hair, and you know, growing up in that fashion world, there's just they're so talented and in television, too. I mean, they are. Angela and Chloe are the two people that set me right as I go off into this show. I mean, your makeup people Yes. Yeah. Okay. And they are, you know, a lifeline not only do they make it all, look all right for TV, but you know, the conversations we have and the the generosity and care that they have. For me, I don't know if I would be able to do it without them. Honestly. It's like, it's such an important piece. And not for the looking good part, but for the feel of it all. So yeah, the mornings are definitely early. It appeals to me though it were there's something about the rhythm of it all that kind of it doesn't feel wrong, if that makes sense. I think for some people, it just doesn't quite work with their circadian rhythms. I've I've always sort of been able to adapt to what my I need to be doing because I spent many years playing music late. So I've been on the opposite schedule. But I've definitely flipped into this morning routine, but you know, at 10am I'm like, Okay, we're done. Or we're done for the

Jann Arden  9:02  
day. That's the other side of that coin. Listen, we know very well here at the Jan on pod about sponsorships with you know, with companies that come on board and and you know, buy into like what you're selling and want to be partnered up with you and you've got a really great partnership right now that I find so interesting and such a perfect share for you tell me about Penningtons and tell me about how that came about and what that means to you to be with a brand that celebrates women. And what a great fit for you tell us about Pennington's. Yeah,

Meredith Shaw  9:41  
thank you. First of all, I totally agree and cosign with everything you just said that's why I'm working with them. I'm in their their ability to show up for a huge portion of the population that does not get a lot of fashion brands showing up for them is really special. And you know, with this brand in particular, you know, I said As a customer, I was a customer for years. And I still remember additionality, as a brand is now within the pen umbrella, but additional was a standalone store. And when I was growing up, you know, I've always been a bigger kid. And so I can remember going into that store and putting like, another bag on top of it when I would leave the store like walking around. Oh, right. I know, I know, I can still I can still feel that girl. Like, I just feel her inside me. And I think, if anyone has had that kind of experience before, you know, it's a reaction that resonates with people, because maybe they have done that too. But they've never said it out loud before. And so to be able to now, kind of flip that experience, even just for myself, and then to be able to translate that, you know, for other people, it's really meaningful to me. So yeah, I mean, this is a partnership, like you say, that's sort of the way the world is these days in terms of, you know, funding art and projects. And, but this is different, this is really a meaningful one all the way through my bones. And so to be able to have worked with them in this way to create this summer dress collection was really cool. That's an edit that I have. And then we've got, you know, I've been designing and that holiday collection is gonna be coming out under my sort of name, but

Jann Arden  11:24  
you're designing Yeah, we're designing and you have a hand in? Yeah, putting together the frickin looks, colors, patterns, how they're cut, the waist lines, the sleeve pops the everything. I mean, are you have a background in that at all? How the hell does a person go about doing this? No,

Meredith Shaw  11:45  
I'm just a girl who's putting on a lot of clothes that has a lot of opinions about it, I guess. I don't know, I don't I mean, I grew up in that fashion industry, I spent a lot of times on set as a model, observing, observing, observing, oh, you're a fashionista, you know, and I got to see mainly the stuff that wasn't working with brands, mainly the stuff that, you know, I'd be on set with, you know, the different categories of straight size model. So, you know, the more traditional model you think of, they'd be on set and they shoot their stuff. And then, you know, I'd be the plus size girl, the Curvy Girl model, and you know, they'd have 17 loads to shoot. And I'd have like, one bedazzled oversized Tiger tunic. And I'm like, 14, you know what I mean? I'm like, This is what is this? Like, I don't understand why this is happening. Like, why are we making this? garmont? I don't know. I thought

Jann Arden  12:38  
that the dazzle tunic and cause of you.

Sarah Burke  12:43  
Ah, well,

Meredith Shaw  12:44  
I got a lot of apologies to make restarting here. This is the atonement. Yeah, no, it just was, it was a strange industry for a little while of like, I don't understand who's making these rules. It's certainly not women who are wearing these clothes, ultimately. And I think that's where the expertise comes from, is my personal experience. And then really getting curious with the business, how it works, how designers work, and then, you know, Maryland, Dennis gave me a huge platform on her show, to work with women and different bodies. And you know, the amount of clothes I put on different people, and there's some things that just hold true. And some some cuts just work, you know, no matter where you carry your weight, or where, if you're bigger, smaller, whatever it is, you just really got to know that, that piece of it. And ultimately, you got to have choice. You got to have things that excite you that affirm who you are. And we're I'm doing it, I'm doing it. Yeah, really exciting. It's very exciting. Years

Jann Arden  13:37  
ago, I was in New York, it would have been the 90 So we're talking, you know, 20 plus years, but I was with a stylist. And we were doing something for the David Letterman Show. So you can imagine while excitement was unbelievable, and of course, I had no fashion sense. I kind of wore my jeans and my Mac jackets and my Doc Martens and had my long red hair and my dark and did my Mole and I wear my red lipstick. I mean that was my schpeel right. And I thought it was good enough and shame on me for buying into the idea that that wasn't going to cut it so but we were going into the shops I don't know I want to say so because that sounds cool, but I don't know where the fuck we were. And every store we went in they didn't have above a 10 and I was barely a 10 I would have been 12 up top I had the D cups going on and oh yeah, so but anyway, I just I remember my humiliation and you touched on that you know having the dazzle jumper or whatever that it was that you were supposed to model that I remember that day and the things that they ended up getting from me I ended up with a Donna Qur'an, shiny suit that I still have to this day and it was so tight around the tummy. And I remember them pinning it kind of under the shirt because the waist was simply too rotate, and I couldn't get it up. But the stylist insisted that this was the fucking way for me to go to pull these pants on, I had not only did I have a camel toe, I had a camel to toe, and maybe a three toe, and maybe there was some kind of a toe in the bath as well

Caitlin Green  15:19  
like a sloth of three toads. Thank

Jann Arden  15:20  
you, Caitlin. You're welcome. I just remember my whole experience with David feeling humiliated. And I never really concentrated on singing or.

Though we all I think, as women know, regardless of your size, have those memories of maybe something you wore for a high school picture? Or Oh, for sure. Like, why did I wear that shirt? And you thought it was cool. But what do you what do you say to women that much like me in 1996? Couldn't find my voice to say, No, I'm not wearing that. I don't need to do that for the office, whatever. Yeah. Well,

Meredith Shaw  16:07  
I mean, I think the the tragedy of it, is, if you don't rise around it a little bit, then your experience, and like the one you're speaking of it becomes about that, as opposed to the thing that you're actually there to be celebrated by. And the thing that really broke it away for me, because I've had multiple, I mean, not with David Letterman, but multiple experiences in that space. And it's like, once you see it, that it's about control, like, once you see that it's someone it's a matrix, and a lot of it exists because they want us to spend money and fix ourselves and change who we are and get distracted from our purpose. And there's a lot of things at play. And once I think you see it for that for what it is, I don't think you can square that off with yourself to not show up in a different way. It's like I'm not spending all this time, and love and energy and effort and then I'm going to be derailed by someone else's agenda of what I should or could be doing. It's like, fuck you. That's not like I'm not doing that. Like that's not why am I doing that for you? Like it's I think it's really turning around seeing it for what it is, which is an economy you know, and you don't have to show up in someone else's economy but just because those stores I'm carrying above a size 10 You think nobody in New York is above asides? 10 Give me a break.

Jann Arden  17:34  
I know it was so bizarre and there's a stylus fully knew that going in as he would literally say to me and I forget this woman's name probably on purpose. She she would literally say to me, they're probably not going to have your size in here. Let's let's just go see. Yeah, what they have

Caitlin Green  17:52  
shame Shame, shame, shame, shame, but

Jann Arden  17:56  
you can cut it out right now Poppy, Poppy

Meredith Shaw  17:58  
Bobby's advocating for you up he's angry.

Jann Arden  18:01  
But but the fact that you know and then so now, I'm already rattled. But you know what, Meredith Shaw? I never did it again. I think about three weeks later. I did Good Morning America and Jasper. They had come up to Canada to shoot

Meredith Shaw  18:18  
the show from Canada to I remember watching you on that show. I wrote Well, I had on a jean

Jann Arden  18:23  
jacket. Yeah, jeans. I had on my boots that were like welders boots with steel toed tips and the little tassels on the toe. And I had on my plaid shirt, and my red lipstick. And I never did it again. Because that night in the hotel I thought I'm never ever going to have somebody tell me how I am comfortable how I need to dress for the fucking label in America to have people accept me so they'll buy my record. Oh my God wouldn't ditz I was

Meredith Shaw  18:53  
No, but I'm going to take that all off you because it wasn't that at all. I mean, we were I remember being in that era. There was no this conversation in that era. None zero.

Jann Arden  19:04  
You don't you don't think so? Caitlyn. No,

Caitlin Green  19:06  
I don't because I remember being like younger and thinking that, you know, when I looked at women in music, especially they were so then, I mean, my God, they were thin. And I had right around that time had jaw surgery. And as a result, I couldn't eat for a while like I was on like a liquid diet. So I lost a ton of weight. I'm already teenager I've lost a bunch of weight. Wasn't I asked about modeling randomly on the street when I was like physically unwell. Like I looked like a skeleton with a candy apple head and was approached multiple times. And again, this isn't me tooting my own horn. It wasn't because I was like they were like, Oh, look at this like face of God. It's they were like, Oh, look at this terribly thin person who looks on Well, that's what we're going for. And I was like, okay, so no, this is not realistic. And this is not healthy. And I like I think of like, look at when Gwen Gwen Stefani like it was like when Stevonnie was like out there with her like washboard abs and you're like, that's fine if that's you, but like, How come there's no reflection of the actual statistical women in society part? Like just didn't have it was

Meredith Shaw  20:09  
it? I mean, it was a very different time. And we're definitely the progress is there, I think there are things that are slipping all over the place and control being taken. And you know, as soon as any talk of bodies begins, and limiting people's ability to advocate and control their own bodies, like that's, like a May Day have all kinds of issues societally. But I think in that specific way, too, it's so interesting to me that like, you know, if we go back to that New York story, like you're supremely successful, that's why you're there. It's all working, that's why you're there. And then a stylist somebody else. And it can be anybody, for anybody listening, like any influence in a life, it's like, well, actually, I know you're doing really well, all on your own. But I have an idea on how to make it better and how it can go to another level. And I think that's the moment to resist and to stay open to, of course, people's creativity and input, but not to not to erase yours for theirs. And I think that's been a true understanding for me is that the more I show up as myself, it's like the hardest, easiest thing to do. It was the hardest thing for me to understand how to do I was always sort of pleasing and contorting, and twisting and changing and showing up how I thought someone else would make you know. And the moment I I don't know, I got so sick that I couldn't do it anymore. I'm not sure. I had a few more candles on my birthday cake. I don't know what it was exactly. But now a combination for sure. A combination. But now it's the it's so it almost feels like I'm doing something illegal. I'm like, This is so easy. And you'll love it. You'll love this. Like I don't Wow, this is beautiful. So if you if you haven't cracked into that space yet, and you're listening me a you're listening to my podcast, but be I think that's the rub is just, it's hard until it's not and then you'll never ever go back.

Caitlin Green  22:06  
But don't you feel a little bit like, because I know from you know, working with you and like getting like DMS and messages and like talking to people who who know that I know you that it's like the fans and and especially like the women who listen to the show and watch you now on on breakfast television, like they always knew and loved you. But it's almost like the the structures like the bigger structures, the bigger organizations like that part of it really seems to be the part that confuses you. But then the fans are like, we loved you the whole time and got it and the people who didn't get it, they didn't get it. They're not your fans, whatever, that's totally fine. But it's like the people who get you and connect with you and your being your authentic self. That seems to be the part that the powers that be don't always understand and like mess with. And I'm like you're messing with perfection, you're messing with the thing that's going to be the connection point for everyone who loves your talent. And so, I mean, kudos to you, because you've always been like that, like you're so like yourself, and you bring that out and other people and make them comfortable. That's some good media intelligence. You could be like a media professor and media, like you could teach media literacy classes. Because you're like, No, no, I get how this whole thing works. I'm like, I'm gonna do it my way, just being

Sarah Burke  23:18  
cognizant of time. I know, Meredith has a meeting in like five minutes, but maybe you could speak about like, a time when you know, you had such a profound impact on a listener or a viewer love that.

Meredith Shaw  23:29  
Well, I think back to something really recently, we did introduce something called the marriage makeover on breakfast television. And I worked with an incredible woman named Carrie. And we had a really emotional moment in a change room. And everything was going very well, like in terms of it was fun, and we were connecting, and we were shopping and and then you know, there was just a moment in the change room where the reality of triangles on and through, you know, also the reality of being filmed in a certain aspect. Oh came to bear. And it just the well the well broke open and she was very emotional about how she just wished she could feel differently about herself. She has a consciousness that she's a great mom and she shows up to work and you know, she has great friends but she she doesn't feel it. And that's what wardrobe can do. It can confront you with some of those worthiness feelings. And I just was able to stand with her in that feeling and I think that was a powerful I didn't try to fix it or take it away. It was like I've been exactly where you are and I think she thought I wasn't where she was like that. I didn't know what that felt like. And I think sometimes maybe you see people on TV or you see people out and about and you think you know they've got some other thing figured out but the the figuring out only comes because the depth of the reality was there at some point And so I thought it was really powerful just to be able to be with her that moment. And then and then to see her come through the other side. And to get messages from her now and just sort of see her come out in an outfit look at herself in the mirror and her eyes changed. And it really was this idea of like, Oh, I got it, like, I don't need to be smaller or bigger or any of that racket I can just, I can just, you know, put on a better pair of pants.

Jann Arden  25:26  
For a lot of us always go to the same clothes all the time, too. We think we can't wear that we can't wear that empire waist. We can't do that. That sort of that kind of a cut. We can't do a short sleeve above the elbow. We can't you know, we can't do this. We're so mired down by our own idea of what looks good on us that I think a lot of us don't have a fucking clue what looks good on us and that we do need a merit a shot ago. You can wear that short jacket, it doesn't need to nothing It doesn't have to cover your bomb and your size all the time. We all need it. We all need

Caitlin Green  25:59  
the size of the clothing should like fit you. It's all you don't have to shrink to fit into a certain type of clothing. You just get a different number. It's

Sarah Burke  26:05  
not you it's the clothes. That's I hear that Oh, yeah.

Meredith Shaw  26:09  
And it's permission. I want to follow what you love. Yeah,

Jann Arden  26:12  
my closet is there's everything in my closet. I've got every size of the world and clothing like the labels they can't decide what a small medium and large is. I find it very laughable sometimes what a large is. I can't even get my fucking arm into the jacket. And I'm like, this is a large In what world? Am I in tiny tot town is this gap in? Where am I right now? Listen, Meredith Shaw. Paddington has picked a queen in your bag. You Dan. And I hope that partnership lasts a long time. I cannot wait to wear a Meredith Shaw dress this summer. Keep up Meredith Shaw. It's at Meredith Shaw on all her clothes shoals. And you can watch her on breakfast television, five days a week. It goes right across the country. And if you want to start your morning off with a smile on your face, and a lot of laughs I've been on the show and you guys make everyone feel so welcome. You have great co hosts with you. And I'm just glad that they let you be you and they saw Breakfast Television Winner winner. They they saw they saw you. And Caitlin said, it's so saintly. The fans already knew they already loved you. But anyway, we're so glad you're a friend of our show. You're welcome back. Anytime.

Meredith Shaw  27:33  
Thank you and I love all of you. This is better than a cup of coffee. That's for sure. My gosh, what a lot. A lot of love. Thank you so much. Right back atcha.

Jann Arden  27:43  
We'll see you soon. And if you ever want to do a makeover on any the three of us just volunteering I think me me and Kaitlyn and Sarah were more than happy to come on the show someday to do us a makeover. We're happy to do that.

Caitlin Green  27:56  
Janet, where her trucker hat we're all set

Jann Arden  28:01  
to $75 I stole it from Michael boomplay.

Meredith Shaw  28:04  
That's a good flex. I like that.

Jann Arden  28:06  
That was absolutely a fantastic conversation with Meredith Shaw as always, and we're going to be right back with Sarah and Caitlin green

Well, welcome back Jen Arden Podcast. I'm here with Caitlin green and Sarah Burke. And that was our very, very special special guests, Mary Shaw, we love you. And you are so positive. And she's so beautiful. Like That girl is just dropped dead good looking like she's just but she's beautiful because of a whole myriad things, not just physically not just the way she carries herself. But the way she treats other people. She's truly one of those interviewers anytime I've talked to her, you're always the star. It's never about her she doesn't ask you a question and then insert her own experience while I've got a story that's you know, she just very much gives you that seat gap of importance. And I can imagine crying in a dressing room with Meredith standing there beside you, showing you a way to put clothes in your body that you never even considered was possible for you and being very emotional by having the person looking back and those god awful dressing room ears that we all shun away from Yeah, and actually going sat me like, am I wearing this shirt? And those pants with the high waist and this not? So I would imagine it would be a pretty mind boggling experience to get a makeover like period.

Caitlin Green  29:37  
Oh my gosh, like I mean some people would obviously especially if you're already dealing with body, you know image issues to then like put yourself out there to do that. I think it's such a testament to her sort of confidence in where she's coming from. And it's not like phony confidence. It's not like it's not it's not like an insincere confidence. It's like really like and it's but it's from like deep inside and from going through all things She's gone through in her life obviously, too. And it's it's a real, it's a real skill. Darn it. Yeah, I love working with her. She's very, very funny. Also, she has a fabulous sense of humor. And it's been really exciting to see her paired with Sid, which I think is such a good match on Beatty, and just like get along like a house on fire. It's just it's great. Can we talk about something that happened to me that was like, please,

Jann Arden  30:23  
I want to know everything that's going on. I wanted to catch you guys up on on my Scotland trip. I wanted to ask what was going on in your world? Because I feel like I haven't talked to you guys in a long, long time. Because we did a pre tape before I went away so that I didn't have to worry about recording from when I was at the UK. But anyways, go.

Caitlin Green  30:42  
Okay. So this past Saturday, I went to go see one of my favorite I almost want to say he's stand up, but he's a performer as well. He does. He does comedy songs, original songs that he writes. He's very everything under the sun. And his name is Chris Fleming. So he had two shows at the Royal Theatre. I went to the early one. And he referenced you, Jan, probably Oh, probably five times during the show. And at one point, broke out into like a short version of him singing insensitive. And I was like, you're not supposed to record anything because a lot of it's his new material. And so I was trying to sneak you record it with might without pointing my phone at him. And my girlfriend's who I was with, like, we were all trying to get it we could not get good audio. What was he saying about me? So he was talking about it started because he was saying how when he's in Canada, he notices just the difference between things in the US. And he said, you know, here in the US, if you open Netflix, the thumbnail they use for Scarface is Al Pacino with the machine guns like going crazy. And he said here, it's like a glamour shot of Al Pacino just holding his head on his hand or whatever. And then he joked that, like insensitive is playing in the background. And he's like, you know, they've got Jann Arden in the background. No, really? No, no, that's, and then other people in the audience started singing it because they know it so well. And so it was just, it's hilarious. And then he kept doing it because it hit at first time. So you became like a callback for

Jann Arden  32:11  
You're welcome.

Caitlin Green  32:13  
Truly. You're welcome. I actually DM Tim, after to be like, I just had to say that I co host a podcast with her. And holy shit. That was funny. So he hasn't even read it. I think I'd probably went into his like, weirdo request. Yeah. But anyways, it was I had to mention it because I was like, That's how synonymous you are with Canadian culture that he like, he even knows this.

Jann Arden  32:36  
That is very touching. I think. You know, when you're in a comedy show, it's like, am I and national, you'll see what is happening. But you know, it's, it really is a blessing to have a song like that, that is so sort of omnipresent, and culturally, whatever it is, but

Caitlin Green  32:59  
he got that email singers and he constantly talks about how he's this very androgynous. Like, he wears women's suits on stage. They're like glittery, he has like long curly hair. So he he really presents himself as as sort of the antithesis of the stereotypical masculine energy. He's ambiguous. He is and he and he talks a lot about how you know his male friends will listen to one thing, and male comedians especially will listen to one thing and he's like, I can't talk about sports with other male comedians. I'm like, so what do you think of Annie Lennox? And like, they just he's like, I have nothing in common with them. So it really was in tune with his comedy and also with his audience clearly because like it hit when he said it, it was like, it really clicked. So I

Jann Arden  33:37  
love that one to see this guy. You know, obviously. You sent me something else this morning. I was I wrote you back. I went like Jesus. What does that even mean? Was

Caitlin Green  33:49  
it hot? wrote in boyfriend summer? Yes. Okay. Okay. So, there's always, you know, like dad bods are short King summer for short men, whatever. So yeah. And he actually talked a little bit about this in his comedy show, too. It's come up on a few other podcasts I listen to how do men get rebranded to be hot when they're just typically not hot. Right now you have actors like Jeremy Alan White, and one of the two actors from the movie challengers. He played Prince Charles on the crown the younger Prince Charles

Jann Arden  34:20  
Yeah, I know who it is, but I don't know what his name is. Yeah.

Caitlin Green  34:24  
And so and then, Barry keogan The Irish actor who Yeah, saltburn is a very strange looking guy. Okay, so this is the thing so now everyone's like, Oh, it's like all these publications and all these outlets are like it's hot rodent boyfriend summer like what? What How can women never get this? We never get like cancle Queen summer we never get like greasy hair and girly summer we don't get rebranded we get stuck in like the same loop of conventional good looks only all the time.

Jann Arden  34:53  
So what women would be in that category let me ask you guys that because I happen to love it. interesting looking people, and I've always been attracted to very different looking not classically beautiful or classically handsome. I know that my little wheelhouse is it just encompasses really different looking things, whether it's a crooked nose or two sets going sideways or just, I mean, I do I really like interesting people that are so confident and have embraced themselves so much that they are just like, boom, it's just like this explosion of energy around them. So what what do you think what women would fit into that in your mind's eye that we could kind of make that comparison is Juno Temple, which he fit into that category crochet? She was in TED Lasell she played the young woman who was the English girl that went out with the main soccer player with the beard and stuff she Oh, she plays Keeley. Yeah, Killian in TED lasso.

Caitlin Green  36:01  
Oh, isn't she supposed to be like an underwear model in that?

Jann Arden  36:04  
I guess so. But I find her very differently. But there's, there's just so many people I find Elisabeth Moss to be kind of a very interesting, not classically beautiful, but yes, she's quite stunning. I could even put Barbra Streisand into that category of someone who if you look at the sons of her parts, you know, a closed set eyes and her nose was such a huge part of her career, and probably very responsible for the sound of her voice and how she sang. But Bette Midler I think would fit into that category of someone who strikes us as powerful, strong, beautiful.

Caitlin Green  36:45  
Tilda Swinton comes to mind for me very much. So

Jann Arden  36:48  
that's what I mean. So who has swagger?

Caitlin Green  36:51  
Right? Like because I feel like that's, that's that's that x quality you can't really account for with someone where she's very self assured and very stylish, and like statuesque and she just has a presence about her for sure. Shout

Jann Arden  37:02  
out to Lesley Ann, who had a book out a couple years ago called Swagger. Okay, well, Leslie am and she speaks to a lot of those things that each of us has to address your sweat. While he would

Caitlin Green  37:14  
doesn't give that same treatment to women as like a group. You know what I'm saying? There's never sort of the equivalent of a hot rodent boyfriend saw her that happens for women and then applies to just regular women. So I found that to be funny, because that's like a trend that's going around now where everyone's talking about all of these men very key organs in the new Sabrina carpenter music video because they're dating. And so it's this whole new thing, and I'm like, okay, he might be a great actor, but like, can we not call it like, I just don't feel like we need to call them Ha,

Jann Arden  37:45  
I'm still traumatized by the new dancing at the end of high No. You know what, it was hot man. saltburn I I want to get up and leave but no one's leaving. And everyone's just glued to the big screen right now. This wiener swinging around and I don't know if you've seen saltburn Sarah, but it it you know what? I'm gonna say Don't watch it. I think Caitlin and I disagreed on this movie. Did you not like it? You really liked it? No, I

Caitlin Green  38:15  
didn't like it.

Sarah Burke  38:15  
Okay, sorry. I can't remember who didn't so don't waste my time. Got it. Yeah, I wouldn't waste your time.

Jann Arden  38:21  
I would watch Superman again with Lois you know, with Margot Kidder. Just go go there. Yeah, I wrote it. I'm kind of I'm kind of a little bit off put by that Caitlin. To be honest, the hot road and summer. If I was a man that was written about in the context of that header. I would feel really sad. Would you? Yeah, I don't think I would take that as Oh, hey, they're really thinking that my weird weirdness my something that's kind of sticks out of the norm is going to be appealing this summer.

Caitlin Green  38:58  
I will say like, they're very successful in the dating world, these men and like Jeremy Alan White, who you might know from the bear, he he looks a lot like a young version of Gene Wilder. Like he's like the like the new gene for health.

Jann Arden  39:10  
I find him super cute. So well. That's what I'm saying. And

Caitlin Green  39:13  
so and he's a Calvin Klein model. So like, I don't think they're bothered by it because I think they're truly being branded as hot. Yes, the word Rodin is unflattering, but I'm just saying there's no equivalent for women. This doesn't happen for us.

Jann Arden  39:25  
Speaking of summer, I've been adding like crazy to the Jan summer jams, Spotify playlists, so I must have put 25 songs on here yesterday. I don't know what you guys are gonna think about. And before we leave the celebrity thing, I be remiss to not touch on this at all. I've been very excited about the Celine Dion documentary that's coming out on Amazon. I'm going

Caitlin Green  39:47  
to the TIFF premiere on Monday. Okay,

Jann Arden  39:49  
I'm so jealous. So anyway, there's little clips that are surfacing. One in particular, Selena is talking to an interviewer that we cannot see they are off camera and she's explaining meaning to them how the stiff body syndrome disease that she has, which is very, very rare, which is knocked her obviously out of her Vegas residency out of her world tour. It has stopped her her professional life completely. Anyway, she was sitting there and she looked, you know, very lovely hair pulled back, no makeup, and she's speaking very candidly to the sky and they were talking about breathing and she was saying, I can take a breath and she was trying to explain how it's affected her singing. So I'm watching this clip. And then she goes, she says, This is what happened. She goes, I can take a breathe in. But she said the, the whatever, that the stiffness, the hardness that is pushing against her that's part of the disease. She went to sing one of her famous lines in one of her tunes. And like nothing came out. It was just a gravelly stunted glinted note, and she she started crying. She said that I can't. This is this is what I'm dealing with. And she was distraught, I started crying. I'm

Caitlin Green  41:08  
like, emotional hearing this.

Jann Arden  41:10  
I started crying because I've seen her. I don't even I cannot count the times that I've seen Celine Dion sing over the last 30 years. I have been a fan from the beginning. And she said, I can't believe that I'm showing this to you. And that I am letting you hear what has happened to my voice. And then she just, she crumbles. And I'm, I'm cannot wait. I'm looking forward to seeing the documentary and I'm dreading it at the same time because I think it's such a she's exposing her very soul. I mean, obviously seeing it's everything how she misses people. She misses the stage. I mean, let's face it, this kid this is all she's known since she was eight or nine years. I know this supremacy. And I'll tell you what, her voice is nothing short of perfection. I have never heard anybody better. I've never heard anyone sing like that in my life. Every note is live it's none of this fucking bullshit that we hear now. I swear to God, sorry. Shanaya Twain. You don't sing live anywhere. You just don't. And you know people are always so scared of saying things like that. You don't if you sing one song live while fucking her Ray. But it's just a joke. What people are charging for

Caitlin Green  42:20  
saline. Her voice is you when you hear it live because I've heard it live. And the hairs on the back of my neck just stand up. It is a God given gift. It is so rare that

Jann Arden  42:32  
it's rare it is once in 1000 years voice it's not just a great generational it's something that surpasses what our idea of singing is. And it is perfect. So anyway to see that clip, man. You have to let us know how that well near goes and what it's about but it's supposed to be I think

Caitlin Green  42:53  
she's supposed to satellite in in some way. Like I think they're supposed to be like uh, yeah, so so we'll see how it goes. It's Monday night I'm I'm so excited. I'm such a huge fan of hers. Yeah, I just like all of her songs. I could just listen to them any time and be like blown away by her talent and her fashion My God when she's on the last tour she had I just thought every look the effort put into her when she goes on stage and the energy energy she puts out. I mean, I saw multiple people cry at multiple points throughout the show because like she just she reaches you like that

Jann Arden  43:33  
she was built for it. She's at a stage I mean I think she loves to sing in the studio but when she Chris my my road manager and I we went to the first show she did back after Renee had passed away she took like a three month hiatus and we were at that first show. I don't know how we ended up getting tickets to that but we were you know sitting there and she opened the show with all you watching we know what cloth cleaning all your eyes are like fingers. Oh my god. It was that whole scene from if you know A star is born the Streisand after Kris Kristofferson dies, she comes back with this song. And she'd started with their version of this song of a spotlight of her standing in front of this massive curtain. I was trying not to sob out loud, like a freak. Prince was crying. The woman behind me was going, Hey, I

Caitlin Green  44:29  
know. I've

Jann Arden  44:30  
never seen anything like it. Anyway, I just had to speak to that of catching that clip and how amazing it was. But we're probably running very close to being at a time right now. But yeah, if you guys get a chance to see it, it's coming out on Amazon. I believe it's the 25th of June.

Caitlin Green  44:45  
I will give you my full review on the podcast next week because I'm sure I'm going to love it.

Jann Arden  44:50  
Well the pictures of your son and his bestie and the frozen ice cream and the walking away hand in hand. With the fucking jeans on,

Meredith Shaw  45:01  
I can't, and I can't

Jann Arden  45:03  
either. I just I simply cannot. The cuteness factor and I know as a parent, you're probably going to say it doesn't last They grow up so fast. I'm sure you wake up every morning you're like, get in here. He's grown. He's

Caitlin Green  45:15  
got the same time we put to bed. We'll know that does happen. Like he wakes up sometimes. And I tell column like he got a software update overnight. Like he's just like talking more. He's like saying more things. So that really does happen. Every stage is cute. But yeah, you miss it. And you can see why. You know, I can see why my grandmother's each had 10 and eight children because they were just like, we want a baby. Yeah, you're like, Yeah, babies are so cute and let someone who didn't necessarily want one. And I was very vocal about that for a large portion of my life. The one ad I've done care of well, is really something because he's just this chubby little ball of joy. And I just love seeing how simple things make a baby's day.

Jann Arden  45:53  
It reminds you of what happiness is a turtle

Caitlin Green  45:57  
do you see as a turtle? That's it. He's like turtle turtle?

Jann Arden  46:00  
That's exactly it. But why adults forget to do turtle turtle or to look at something? Yeah, like in Scotland. I ran around looking at all the plants I'd never seen in my life and colors that I honestly have never seen before. I'm looking at a flower going. Is that blue? Is that purple? Is that pink? What the fuck is this color? And I'd be like you guys what is this color and Lisa would go I have no idea what color that is. And we didn't know what the smell was like the cliffs Scotland. I did not picture as beaches. So I get the simple things in life that you over look, birds, weird birds I'd never seen before. And just as one finale in this podcast today. I didn't take the metal detector. Oh, it's not a travel metal detector thing. It doesn't come apart and go into a bag that you put into your suitcase. When I unfolded the bag. It's five feet long. It's like a travel bag. So in lieu of that, I took my newly acquired engraving kit. It comes with 100 bits. It looks like a pen. I spent eight days engraving beach rocks. Everyone got a beach rock with an angel their names on it. The date I'm crazy for this engraving thing it does glass it does ceramic it does stone you can do a wall you can do wood so I'm crazy nuts. I'm doing you guys a rock right? And yeah, but that's they came out at night I'd be outside in the back of our little VRBO they'd be having a drink and I would just be madly engraving covered in stone dust you were

Caitlin Green  47:40  
like a medieval like you were in the medieval trades in another life like you were you were doing something like that you were stone welding or I don't know what stone cutting welding you were doing. You were like a you were an A Smith of some kind. Blacksmith iron Smith. I don't

Jann Arden  47:56  
know. If I had mentioned Mary, Queen of Scots one more time. I think they would have stabbed me in my sleep. I would go and I'd say to like whoever tour guides, whatever was Mary Queen of Scots here. Yes, he came to the castle and 1549 and I bought a book finally my friend Babs handed to me. She goes, you might want to buy this. It's where Mary has been. That's the No. And it's this big, beautiful photographic book. And it was literally her life where she was born and all the castles that she visited in Scotland. But so she goes now you don't have to ask you can know where Mary has been a not been. You're

Caitlin Green  48:36  
gonna engrave your own tombstone. It will be like died doing what she loves telling people about Mary Queen of Scots against their will.

Jann Arden  48:43  
My Tombstone is going to say, I'll be anyway and we will be back. We'll be back next week. Once our summer planning is going up. Sarah Burke,

Sarah Burke  48:52  
the first day of summer it will be published on the first day of summer, which means that right now it's we can still take your voice notes. Actually, we'll play a couple of them right now for some of the suggestions.

Speaker 1  49:03  
Hi, Jan, Caitlin, and Sarah Michelle Leonard here. Aside from Jan, my summer playlist, and Jen, you are on my summer playlist but anything aside from Jan. Teddy swims is my new one. The newest addition, I lose control kind of caught my attention and I went down that rabbit hole and listened to all of his music. Pat Benatar. I'm loving the tortured poets department, almost society, and Rick Springfield. I met him multiple times. And I love Rick. We're seeing him next month. See him every time he comes to Phoenix. Bryan Adams throwback to my dad, Mack Davis Hart, Bad Company, again, throwback to high school when they were kind of like the old school music when I was in high school in the 80s. But I still love anything by bad company, the cars. And then the last one I could really think of that's always on my playlist is Chris Stapleton, excuse me, and I'm sure there's a lot more than that. But those are the ones that come to mind. upfront. So, we love you guys love your podcast. Hi.

Speaker 2  50:03  
Hey Jan It's Denise. Love listen to your podcast just caught your show with Rick Mercer recently in Toronto and had a great laugh. Thanks for that. Regarding the summer lovin or farmer loving, wanted to share with you a memory of the song by Swan Family Stone called have fun in the summertime. And for me, it brings back memories of heading to the beach in New Brunswick, I guess in the 70s and hearing that song in the radio. So to this day when I hear it, I absolutely think of summer and absolutely think of my childhood. Thought I'd share that with you and please feel free to add it to your list. Thank you.

Speaker 3  50:45  
Hi, Dan. This has been this this Jen living in Australia. One of the cool things about your podcast is I can see be here in the summertime. And listen to you guys complain about the winter weather and go hee hee hee hee. Or now I'm coming into winter and listening to you guys talking about summertime. Fabulous show. Love it. It's my kick started the week. Bye bye now. Hi,

Speaker 4  51:13  
Jan, Caitlin and Sarah. It's Carol love your podcast listener free week. Usually when I'm walking my dogs calling in to talk about the summer playlist and top of mine is Springsteen's Dancing in the Dark reminds me the first really big concert I went to summer 84 at the CNE had some Born in the USA tour. And despite the fact that me and my friends for three rows I think from the back we were convinced that one of us would get pulled on stage just like Courtney Cox to dance with Bruce. Alas, it didn't happen, but it was still a great night and a great memory. I just wish I had enough money to buy a tour t shirt. Love your show. Keep up the great work by

Sarah Burke  52:02  
keep them coming because we're still building

Jann Arden  52:04  
waiting to hear Caitlin's summer jams. It might be the wheels on the bus go round and round the Summer Edition. Get ready.

Caitlin Green  52:11  
It's Bob Seger if Sabrina carpenter its Buena Vista Social Club. Its sister Nancy. Got some. I've got some sleeper hits on here for you. Okay, well.

Jann Arden  52:21  
Listen once again. Sarah Burke. Caitlin green. Thank you so much. You can go on to Jann Arden pod that is our handle on cross all the social platforms. You can hear us wherever you hear your favorite podcasts, you know all the usual suspects. Thanks for subscribing. Thanks for being you. Thanks for our sponsors. Shout out to intact shout out to wonder bra shout out to Cove come on Cove,

Sarah Burke  52:41  
where are you cold? You are over delivering on your sponsor mentions by the way. So

Jann Arden  52:46  
anyways, thank you for listening. We'll see you next week. We appreciate you more than you know. We'll see you next time. doodly doo