Jann Arden's Mixtape, Unexpected Magic & Middle Children

Jann Arden  0:07  
Jan, Hello. It's me, Jann Arden, award winning singer songwriter, and this is my podcast. Well, it's our podcast. I'm here today, as always, with Caitlin green and Sarah Burke. And guess what it is? And we're going to need some kind of applause, some kind of cheer, because today, January 31, year of our lord the mix tape record is out. It is my 16th studio record. Thank you everyone. Thank you everyone.

Caitlin Green  0:40  
What does that feel like, like as an artist? Does it like? Are you like 16 albums like, what?

Jann Arden  0:46  
Well, I've been with universal for 32 years. I think I signed in 1992 so, yeah, coming up in 33 years. You know what? It feels good, but it also feels like I've been there for a long time, and I have to give them credit, because they're still making records with me. And as you know, we don't sell a lot of records anymore. We're all on the streaming platforms. Some people still sell records. I know Michael Buble sells records. Adele sells records. Taylor sells records. There's a handful of artists probably Beyonce, probably that top 1% of the artists that we all know, their names that sell actual tactile compact discs, cassettes are coming back. They tell me, I know mix tape is going to be out on cassette. There's going to be a limited run of cassettes. Who's got a freaking cassette deck is beyond me. And of course, vinyl is is here with a vengeance. But yeah, it feels good. It's a great record, I think, for anyone who's feeling nostalgic, which I feel like is everybody, especially in the last week, we all want to go back to an easier time, seemingly. So it's all 90s music. It's mixtape. It's like when your friends made you a mixtape.

Caitlin Green  1:59  
Oh my god. I miss making mixtapes for people, and I miss Did you guys ever have where it was like, if somebody liked you, or you just started dating your crush, would make you a mixtape that was fun? Well,

Jann Arden  2:11  
I don't think I was that lucky. I think just my pals at Spring Bank Community High School would just we'd make tapes for each other, and we also did the thing. It was a little later on in the 80s where we tape stuff on the VCR from much music, like we sit there waiting for our favorite videos to come on, yes, on like the top 10 countdown and hit the freaking record button.

Caitlin Green  2:35  
I wish I had those. I know I've got a couple really

Jann Arden  2:39  
VHS tapes. I don't have a player, right, but I have VHS tapes that are just like favorite videos, much music, 1986 or something like that.

Caitlin Green  2:50  
God, I would love to see what's on those.

Jann Arden  2:54  
To visit us. Okay, come to visit me and Poppy. We're

Caitlin Green  2:56  
gonna buy a VCR player at someone's nearby garage sale or a pawn shop. I bet you pawn shops would still have them, maybe, and then,

Jann Arden  3:04  
for sure, yeah, I think if you went on Facebook marketplace, right, you could find a VHS. I have got a shop full of probably still six, 700 VHS tapes from anything from I've got the Goonies. I've got original Star Wars in boxes. I've got because my mom and dad owned a video store in the 80s. So a lot of them are gone somewhere. All the the adult titles have magically disappeared. God only knows where they went to yank my doodle, it's a dandy, and in and out of Africa have suddenly disappeared. Um, but I do have some really great titles, and Nigel tells me that they are worth a lot of money in the boxes. I mean, they're obviously used, but I might just put them out there. But getting back to me, my record mixtape, I want to shout out to Leah Gautier, who was one of my writers on the Jan show. I had finished the record, and I was thinking of like playlist I was fooling around with that I had some really stupid long titles. One of them was, I bet you thought you knew the words. And I think I told you guys that. Yeah. Bruce Allen said, No, that's ridiculous. It's God damn stupid.

Sarah Burke  4:13  
That's a very good Bruce impression. That's her manager, by the way.

Jann Arden  4:17  
And Leah, first thing she I said, I don't know what to call it. And she said, mix tape. Call it mixtape. And Bruce loved it so much. The record company loved it. I'm like, oh my god, I'm gonna do I give Lea credit? Do I give her credit? Yes, I am. I'm giving her credit. Which

Sarah Burke  4:33  
of these songs was the first one you went to lay the tracks down for? Well,

Jann Arden  4:38  
Russ and I had been doing a whole bunch of 80s music, like almost two years ago we started, and I was doing, I think the first song that I did was boys of summer, which is an 80s track, which did end up on this record as well. It's the bonus. We did decide to go 90s stuff. But I said to Bruce, I love how boys of summer turned out. That was the first one we did. It's so different. It's laced with harmonies. It's really laid back. It's very eerie. And I think from a female perspective, singing that song is very different. You know how girls when they're broken up with and I was thinking about my young self for sure, and I did go sit in front of people's houses and look in the windows to see if I could see who they were with or what was going on. And I go back to those times, yes. And I'm like, Oh, what a loser. When I heard that song for the first time, I thought, Well, true to that. When I was in my 20s,

Caitlin Green  5:34  
I did that. Well, I love boys of summer. You're right. It is eerie. Well, it's just I

Jann Arden  5:39  
can see you, your blonde hair shining in the sun. It's very creepy. And when you slow those songs down, those lyrics really pop out. But I think we've done I worked with Russell broom, my dear friend. We worked together for many years, decades, and this is our second record that we've made together, and we had a blast. He produced this thing like a champ. I mean, he hit the ideas that he had. His playing is so superb. I'm really proud of the record. So if you're anywhere today where you can go pick up a copy or stream it or listen to it, you better be waiting in

Sarah Burke  6:12  
line at HMV. Oh, my God. You better not be waiting

Jann Arden  6:15  
in line. You can order the vinyl like anyone. You can go to Amazon. You can go to, you know, your HMV online. You can, you can get the record anyway. We got lots to talk about. First of all, the Academy Awards. They just released the the best of the nominations. And I didn't think they were doing the Academy Awards because of the horrendous fires and the catastrophic damage in California, like I had read, No, they're not gonna, they're gonna do something else. They don't feel it's in the right taste or the, you know, the right climate, to to go ahead with the with the Academy Awards. So did I miss something? I probably did. I don't know anything.

Caitlin Green  6:56  
I think that, you know, I think kind of all the awards, there was discussion around whether or not they would go on. But I don't think that there was ever any concrete determination that these awards weren't going to happen, because they're on March 2, and it feels like it's enough time, I think, for a lot of people to, kind of like, get their bearings, and hopefully for hotels to open back up. That was one of the bigger considerations as well, that a lot of people who were temporarily staying somewhere else, their insurance companies are putting them up in hotels, and it was impacting hotel availability for the awards. Yeah, yeah, where would they put everybody? Yeah? That was, like, that was a real thing. So yeah, this is it's gonna happen on March 2. I'm just excited. I'm mostly excited, quite frankly, because I haven't seen a lot of these movies. I'm gonna be honest with you, it's being hosted by Conan O'Brien, and he is, I just am tickled that he's gonna be the one hosting that night. So I can't wait, because this is a year. I think it's a rough year for the Academy Awards. I'm going to call it. I don't see too many people have I don't know too many

Jann Arden  7:49  
people. Movie wise, yeah, what are the five films? Yeah, the

Caitlin Green  7:53  
best picture. Nominees are a Nora the brutalist, a complete unknown conclave Dune, part two. Amelia Perez, I'm still here. Nickel boys, the substance and wicked.

Jann Arden  8:05  
I've seen a few of them. Seen the substance, seen wicked. Seen conclave.

Sarah Burke  8:10  
Lots of Canadian representation. Actually, there's a couple different things. There's so the filmmaker for Dune is from Quebec, yep. Denis Villeneuve, Ville. News, there you go. And we talked about the Amelia Perez that Narco transgender story musical, yeah. So that one is up for a ton of awards, but there's a filmmaker by the name of Julian brave noise cat who worked with a journalist named Emily Cassie. They're both born in Toronto, actually, and they're up for the documentary sugar cane. So that's the investigation into the BC residential school near sugar cane reserve. But like to see it represented on like, the Oscars

Jann Arden  8:54  
list is pretty sweet. Well, it's very important to be nominated.

Caitlin Green  8:57  
Yeah, we I think Canada does like pretty well when it comes to, like, our shorts and our documentaries, and especially our Quebec language films. I mean, historically, we've seen quite a bit of success there. And yeah, Denny Villeneuve obviously, like, he's not being entered in as a Canadian or like, but, I mean, he is a Canadian director. I don't think dunes gonna win, unfortunately, which rattles me, because it was, by far, like my favorite movie of the year, but I think dune and wicked of that list. And there's, you know, there's quite a few titles there. Those are the only two real blockbusters like those are the only two real films that I think had a major push in theaters. The rest of them, it's a bit of a head scratcher, like the brutalist. I don't even think had a wide release until very recently. It has, we've talked about this before, but it has a dang intermission. It's so long. Intermission.

Jann Arden  9:42  
It's so long. Oh yeah, what was it? Three and a half hours, three hours and 20 minutes, three and

Caitlin Green  9:47  
a half hours. And again, I know a few people who've seen Amelia Perez, and it's a, it's a real mixed bag on the reviews there and on the on the fact that it is or isn't a musical like my understanding is a. Like a lot of sing, talking again, I haven't seen this, so I'm coming from a place of not knowing who doesn't

Jann Arden  10:04  
like sing, talking. I've seen a Nora, I've seen Conclave, I've seen dune part two. I've seen the substance. I've seen wicked I've not heard of the nickel boys. I almost watched. I'm still here the other day, a complete unknown. I have not heard of the brood list. I keep checking iTunes to see if it's out to watch it, because I thought perfect thing to watch at home, because you can stop to pee, yep, you know. Or you can do it in two parts, yep, you can do it in two parts. You can watch half and then watch half another time, which I have been known to do as well. The substance is going to be interesting. And you know what? I gotta really give it to Demi Moore, because she has really not been appreciated, I think, in a way that she should have been. I still love ghost. We talked about her on the podcast a few weeks ago, and the movie was crazy wild when we talked about, if you don't like needles, do not watch this movie, because it'll ping your string. But she must have just been so chuffed when she saw those because it's a it's a game changer. It changes the trajectory of your life. You are never thought about the same way again. When you're an Academy Award nominee, your accreditation just skyrockets, like your value, your worth. It changes in Hollywood, doesn't it? Yeah,

Caitlin Green  11:21  
it does. It's a big deal. And she also was told, and she said this, I think, in her golden globe speech, you know, that she would really only be kind of like this popcorn movie actress, and we all remember her, and, you know, gi Jane and and she became this sort of like, very much a sex symbol, which then sometimes can be difficult for actresses to come out from under that categorization and be taken seriously for like hurt films. But I think it's cool. So substance got five nominations again. I haven't seen I haven't seen that either. I've heard fantastic things from everyone who has seen it that I know I just again with the body horror. I don't know. I don't know if it's for me. Elton

Jann Arden  11:57  
John has once again been nominated for Best Song. I think this is about his eighth go around for best song. And in order to qualify for best song in the Oscars, it has to be specifically written for that project. It can't be something that's a volunteer from a catalog like you can't just pick it's got to be specifically in that project, written for the project. Animated Films. Wild robot is one of the best movies that I saw last year. And I was on the plane. I don't I was probably flying to Toronto. My friend told me to watch it. She goes, it's animated, but it's not a kids thing. Specifically, I cried for 90 minutes watching the wild robot. What's it about? Roughly, spaceship crash lands on planet. Planet is all animals. It's all wild animals. And this little robot gets out of the planet, and it's supposed to it's being sent out on a mission. We don't get to find out what that mission is, but he is introduced to all these little animals, and he programs himself to learn what they're saying to him, because they're really scared of this thing. Okay? So it takes him, you know, however long it takes him, to get his software upgraded so he can understand the raccoon and the bear and the ducks and the birds and the it is. So, you know me. I mean, what I wouldn't do to understand my dear who are now, you know, waiting on my deck in the morning for me, but I did. I cried all the way through it, and I love those, those stories that are metaphors for life, and they're just so special. I highly, highly recommend wild robot, and I also highly recommend conclave. I'm not a huge person that knows a lot about Catholicism, nor do I know much about the choosing of a pope, but Isabella Rossellini is superb. She is so deserving of a Supporting Actress nomination in that movie. It's it's worth it. You'd think it would be so tedious. It is riveting. I needed Ativan. I haven't taken an Ativan for about 20 years. But watching conclave and watching what they go through and the pettiness of trying to elect a pope because the Pope has died the previous Pope. So conclave and wild robot are two that I would highly, highly recommend. You guys have any recommendations things that you've seen. I mean, wicked was really fun, too. I'm definitely going to watch that

Sarah Burke  14:24  
again. Ariana Grande got a nomination too. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  14:27  
she

Caitlin Green  14:29  
was really thrilled about that. And I think when you consider how much effort it sounds like her and Cynthia put into this, oh my gosh, their whole press tour for that was like, just them talking about immersing themselves in these characters and in that film, in that world for so long, I think that's a big one. My favorite was still dune part two, and I know it's not going to win anything, but like, I love that movie, and I love that series, and I'm really partial to it, but yeah, I mean, maybe Timothy Chalamet and maybe Zendaya wouldn't have been nominated for that, but I don't know. I love Benicio Del Toro in it. Like, love, love, love. Up or not. Be nice to Del Toro. I always get him confused with Javier Bardem. Javier Bardem, he was so fantastic in it. Oh my god. I was like, and again, I haven't seen enough of the nominees around supporting yet to really gage whether or not he was considered a snub. And I do enjoy picking through the snubs. There'll be a bunch of articles now that come out following today's nominations about who got snubbed. So I kind of do like picking through those as well. Nicole

Jann Arden  15:24  
kidman's name is being thrown around as a snub. Obviously, I'm not sure what film I think that would have been for baby girl, which is apparently a soft horn. Nigel said, Please don't ever watch that with your mother. I said, Well, I can't, because my mother's dead. But you know what I bloody mean? You know, some years are little more content oriented than other years, but I still think there's some real gems in there, and I love going through them and watching them. So anyway, did you read the book to dune? Were you one of those young kids that had the 4000 page dune book and just peeling through it, no, no.

Caitlin Green  16:01  
And my dad was that kid and that guy, and so we had the whole series at home. And it just never at that age. It never really spoke to me. But I am interested now, because of how much I love the films in going back and checking it out. But I haven't historically been a big like a big sci fi reader.

Jann Arden  16:19  
I got through 80 pages of Dune when I was like 22 and maybe I was just hung over something like I was so determined, because I was a Lord of the Rings person. I did read all that stuff, JR Tolkien, but Dune, I couldn't. I was so overwhelmed, my mind caved in. There was so many people and so many things, and even when I watched the films, I don't completely understand what I'm talking about. But speaking of books, and I do want to touch on this story a bit, because we, last week, announced our book bag book club, and in memoriam, is our first choice for book anyway, this is a weird thing that happened. So Philadelphia Eagle wide receiver AJ Brown, was on the sidelines, and he was caught on camera, you know, sitting there waiting to go on and do his thing in football, he was caught reading a book. He was flipping through Jim Murphy's book called inner excellence, and the camera showed that to him overnight. This book became number one on Amazon, and is still flying high in the top five. So I want to talk about that a little bit about the power of I mean, Murphy is just so blown away that any comments that he's made, he's like, I don't know what to tell you. Yeah,

Caitlin Green  17:29  
like, he like, woke up to the news, and everyone's like, what, what? Why? Why am I all of a sudden selling this many books? And it was because an NFL star, and like the US, they love football so much. Imagine

Sarah Burke  17:40  
he's the same player. Is like holding a copy of mix tape watch the

Jann Arden  17:46  
biddlemores. Can you hold more? Yeah? AJ, brown, would you mind holding that in the air? Yeah, I'll tell you the closest I ever came to that. Sarah, years ago, I think my Christmas record came out, 2015 maybe 2016 somewhere in there. Rod Stewart held it up in the studio on the social cool. I was just on the social and I didn't even think of holding my book up again, because

Sarah Burke  18:13  
I have a record to hold up now. Hopefully you held up your album, though, please. Yeah,

Jann Arden  18:16  
no, I definitely did. Definitely, definitely did. So, yeah, it's funny, never, never say never. And this is a really cool lesson in life too. You don't know what your break is going to be. You don't know what that thing is going to be that gets you to that next step. But yeah, just a simple thing of a shot football game. I just I found that to be such a charming, lovely story. I love the unexpected goodness that happens, and we have to remember the unexpected goodness as we go forward, because God knows we need it. I want

Caitlin Green  18:49  
more influencers, which a football player clearly would be someone who would be influential to just just be photographed holding a book. Because if we can get everyone away from the internet and away from social media and towards reading a book? Yeah, I think we're in better standing than we find ourselves presently. No,

Jann Arden  19:08  
I agree completely. We're news hounds, and we're just waiting. We're waiting for good news to happen. We're waiting for those little pearls of goodness to fall out of the sky, because it's a lot of doom scrolling right now, and I'm guilty of doing that as well. I'm really trying not to me and poppy are heading down the road. I don't even look at my phone. I snap a picture of Jan's road, and then I stick into my pocket week, and we carry on. But

Sarah Burke  19:31  
it's hard to tell what is even true right now, like this whole thing with the following and unfollowing of Biden or Trump or any of these American political accounts, like not to dive too much into that, but like, yeah, you know, I looked it up on my phone and I was following all those people. And I clearly was not,

Jann Arden  19:51  
yeah, people were telling me that, and I looked, they're like, you're following so and so. And I looked, and I wasn't so I'm not sure what people are seeing and what they're not seeing, but I was definitely not. Not following the Vice President of the United States of America. I just, I wasn't I couldn't find it anywhere. I wrote this girl back. She was all panicked, like you're following. I'm not even gonna say his name,

Caitlin Green  20:10  
okay, first of all, that's where you lose me. Who is policing, who everyone follows. But

Jann Arden  20:16  
this is the thing. And I said, I said, I will check. I'm pretty I said, I will check. So I did check. I'm not following. The follow box was blue.

Sarah Burke  20:26  
I'm following JD Vance. I just looked it up. I only looked at Trump before.

Caitlin Green  20:30  
Is that his handle, or is that the Vice President handle, both of them. So what happens is, when there's a transition of leadership, they get the account. They get the account Exactly. So there's a POTUS and then a V vice president account. So if you were previously following Joe Biden and Kamala Harris on their professional POTUS and their VP accounts, I'm going to you are now, by default, following Trump and JD Vance. I

Sarah Burke  20:53  
gave this bill to a friend, and then she was like, No, look.

Caitlin Green  20:57  
But again, here's just what I want everyone to just deep breaths, everybody. If you are spending any of your time going through and checking who public figures are or aren't following, you're unwell. You're part of the same thing. If you're trying like, oh, I promise you, there is stuff to be outraged about, and there's way better use of your time than going around policing who other people follow. Because a there were, I think, something like 3 million people unfollowed. Like, like, they went in and unfollowed JD Vance or Donald Trump, because they were, they were alleging that meta was forcing people to follow them. They were, like, auto following it, like, even

Jann Arden  21:37  
if you do album drop, yeah, exactly. Oh, I remember that. I remember

Caitlin Green  21:41  
that. Yeah, so that is justifiably very annoying. And that story about whether or not Mark Zuckerberg and meta and Twitter, whether or not these men who stood behind him at the inauguration and who stand to gain immense amounts of wealth and power from their proximity to Donald Trump, whether or not they are doing that, that's interesting to me, like, I care about that story. I'm not gonna pop into the DMS of Sarah McLachlan and be like, Excuse me. Like that is, just go volunteer for a local political party. I beg of you, because you're not solving any of the world's problems with this type of behavior. It like drives me up the wall, because I'm like, I need you to go. We have a leadership race coming up. Why don't you go register for that, or volunteer for that? This has

Sarah Burke  22:28  
been a public service announcement from Caitlin green on the go to the media network. It activates

Jann Arden  22:31  
it activates me. I don't want to admonish anybody, but I think the tone, no, I do that was coming off of that page to tell me that I was following them, and I did go check just but I think I don't always trust technology either, like whatever she was seeing was not what I was seeing. And it does happen. I have been accused, as you know, of like unfollowing people. How come you unfollowed me in a grocery store, and I always say, Well, you must have done something.

Caitlin Green  23:04  
You have an unhealthy parasocial relationship with somebody who you don't even know in real life. If this is what you think of and what consumes your thoughts, I beg of you. We need people in the good fights that are all around us right now. Go put your energy into the tangible. If this is what you're complaining about while you watch the world burn, you're part of the problem.

Jann Arden  23:23  
Well, it's, it's like manifesting, you know, that negativity, and if you don't believe in that stuff, you don't believe in that stuff. I do believe in manifesting good things. I absolutely think, you know, a good portion of the success that I've had in my career is because I believed that I could do things. I believed in myself. I had a mom that always said to me, why not you or why not you've got cute little arms. And so I was raised by a mom that was so optimistic in the face of a lot of shitty things. My brother, who was constantly committing petty crime and eventually ended up in jail for a long, long time. My dad, who was a crappy drinker and brought a lot of dark clouds into our house, but my mom, Sean, there was always, even in the darkest moments, I could see some kind of glow coming from underneath her cardigan sweater, and it just was always there. It was just always there. And that's what I learned. That was who I learned from. I don't think my dad was around enough for me to actually glean anything except that he worked hard. He was hard on himself. I can see that now, but my mom and so yeah, make sure that you do. You know. Getting back to the success of this man's book, Jim Murphy's book, going viral by being held up at a football game. Why not expect good things? We have to go forward. There's going to be four years of this. And keep in mind, there's a lot of people that are really, really happy about this four years. Yes, and they're out there with this energy, this positive energy, pushing it out there it might be, you know, a little bit testosterone driven, I'll just say that, but an awful lot of women voted for, you know, Voldemort. But I'm just saying, don't expect bad things to happen because they will. Worrying is praying for things you don't want. So I have really worked hard and changing my the way that I'm thinking. Going forward anyway, we're going to take a quick break. You're listening to the Jan Arden podcast and show. I'm here with Sarah Burke and Caitlin green. We're going to be back, and we want to talk about being a middle child, because I'm a middle child. Sarah, there's two children. Caitlin is an only child, but I want to delve into that. So don't go away. You're listening to the Jan Arden podcast and the women in media Podcast Network.

Jann Arden  26:01  
We are back, Caitlin green, Sarah Burke, and I think we have a little dot that Caitlin wants to put on to our last conversation before we went to break an asterisk. So yeah, let's, let's finish this off because I didn't give you a chance to respond. An

Caitlin Green  26:13  
asterisk is also that you can follow these accounts, and it does not denote approval because I followed JD Vance before he even became VP, because, quite frankly, I'm very, very interested in understanding the direction of the next four years. I'm very interested in understanding and these people tell on themselves. So, you know, there's this whole project 2025 that's like, you know, 922 pages thick, or whatever it is. I don't know who's going to read that, who has the time? But a lot of the stuff that's been enacted in this these first few days is very clearly outlined, and they'll say it on their socials, and they'll put it out there. And so I am interested in knowing it does not mean that. I think that what they're doing is great, but I think that this is a different era that we're living in politically. It is very much the magnification of the Republican Party in the US. That's not going to change anytime soon. So if you don't want to expose yourself to it, I totally appreciate that. I love hiding in Bravo land as much as anyone else does. But when I do, when something's up, I want to know, so I will fall I will closely follow along. And that's that's just me. But it doesn't mean that I'm like, Oh, I love it. Repeat what you

Jann Arden  27:19  
said. Following somebody is not,

Caitlin Green  27:23  
yeah, approval. It's not. This is not the same. So let's,

Jann Arden  27:25  
let's try not to. Let's care about the right stuff, yeah, and just the being a good neighbor thing. You don't know why I'm following. I mean, there's cosmetic companies that I follow that you know, are not cosmetic companies that I believe in. But like you said, Caitlin, I want to know what they're doing now. I want to keep up to date on what they're testing, what they're not testing, like, what their whole vibe is. So I follow a lot of different accounts, like tons. I follow 7500 people, and, yeah, it's a lot, because I want my feed to be diverse. I don't want to just blind myself with cute kittens the whole time. I actually want to see issues that bother me and that, you know, maybe I can do something about anyway. Moving on as promised, middle child syndrome. Caitlin brought this story to the table, and it made me laugh reading it. But what's your take on this? I'm a middle child. Well,

Caitlin Green  28:20  
I'm an only child, so sibling dynamics have and siblings in general is always something that's fascinated me because I don't understand it myself. But this, this study, was sort of it. It appealed to me because it kind of said that the middle child was the good one. Said that it was this study that said middle children are more honest, humble and agreeable than their older and younger siblings. And this was researchers using and that I don't know what this is, but they called it the hexaco Personality Inventory, to analyze six personality traits, honesty, humility, emotionality, extraversion, agreeableness, conscientiousness and openness to experience. And middle children scored very high in honesty, humility and agreeableness. And they say those with very high scores on the honesty humility scale avoid manipulating others for personal gain. Feel little temptation to break rules, and are uninterested in lavish wealth and luxuries and feel no special entitlement to elevated social status. Well, I

Jann Arden  29:22  
mean, as much as I would like to say that I'm all those things, it makes me feel good. I feel that I do try to do all those things, like I am agreeable. I don't like being contentious. I love to solve problems. I love to get in between people and fix things, you know, when I can. So I wonder why that is like, what's your take on that as a only child, and you're one of two, Sarah,

Sarah Burke  29:48  
does it say anything about youngest or older?

Caitlin Green  29:52  
No, I mean, I'm sure somewhere in this larger study, but in the snippet that I found in this article, there was no other explainer beyond that. I. Think I also was like, did a middle child write this as the only child? I feel like it's one of those things that sounds like it would be true. I also always heard, though, that the middle child was the one that, like, had to be louder or do more to get attention within the family dynamic. Yeah, yeah. I don't know if that's true either, but that they kind of, it's the it's the child that gets lost in the mix of the the first child being the older one and the youngest child being the baby that the middle child sort of gets like, this is the, this is the stereotype that I hear from others. Jan, is that true? Do you feel like for you, though, I feel like

Jann Arden  30:34  
my little brother got everything he

Sarah Burke  30:36  
asked for. Same with the younger

Jann Arden  30:38  
sister, just saying, I just feel like Patrick and he deserved it. I think Dre was so wild and he was so out of control that my parents were just worn down. I kind of blended into the furniture. I did my own thing. I was very easily entertained myself. And Pat was, you know, he he was very conscientious. He'd spend 20 minutes on his feathering his hair in the morning, when feathering was a big deal, he would be doing that, and he only dressed a certain way, and things had to match. And I remember that about him when he was really young. He's five years younger than me, but I felt like he got what he wanted when he asked for it. If he wanted adida gazelles, he got adida gazelles. Oh, yeah. But mom would always say, well, Patrick, well, you can work at the golf course and get your own Adidas gazelles. I don't need to. I was like, always the person, well, you're older than him, and you can do that yourself. So I mean,

Caitlin Green  31:30  
as the only child, you're truly never fighting for a resource of any kind. So there is that piece of it, but at the same time, you grow up like a little adult and and so that comes with, like, a, I think, a an advanced understanding of adults, because you just occupy and inhabit their world non stop. There is no peer that lives with you. You have to schedule time to be around someone who's your own age. And so that is a very different dynamic. And, yeah, I'm curious about that, though, because, like, Will is going to be an only child, and so I wonder about that for him as well. Like, how will that look? And I already can feel that I'm like, damn it, I'm gonna have to book so many play dates, like, I'm gonna have to be and my parents had to do the same thing, like, they gave me this big room that was like, you know, and a lot of people would think, like, oh, it's like, oh, it's like, your only child, and like, you're being spoiled. And I remember my dad saying, No, this was intentional, because we wanted her room to be the hangout spot. We wanted to have an open door policy with her friends, so that she could have friends over, so that she could have sleepovers, so that she had a little bit more of the camaraderie of that would be kind of missing passively, which I think I would try to emulate that same thing, because it does help you socialize, for sure. So you do. It's like, it's like having a dog. You got to socialize them, and if you're an only child. I was very quickly, quite honestly, just socialized to adults. And I did prefer the company of adults, unfortunately for me, when I had to go.

Sarah Burke  32:55  
So not shocked. Yeah, I did. What

Jann Arden  32:58  
about the sister? What about younger sister? Older sister. What was that? I

Sarah Burke  33:01  
think the the interesting dynamic with, like, just two siblings, it's like a head to head competition, like straight between each other, versus it being like spread out over three kids or four kids, or whatever, and even to this day, like, you know, for example, my sister was doing a renovation in her basement, and my dad felt like he had to come to me and say, do you need, do you need anything? Like, do you need me to and I'm like, No, Dad, I'm good, but it's because he tries so hard to keep things equal between the two of us. Yes, and that is something that probably stems from some guilt at some point when we were growing up. But like, Oh, don't even get me started on dance class. Like, if I was in a dance competition, but she was in the recreational class, right? Like, there was sometimes some things that weren't even and even if it was literally, because, like, oh, well, you can't do those jumps, and the advanced classes doing that, those jumps, and you're two years younger, so we'll get you there soon. It would still be a problem in the house. You know what I mean?

Jann Arden  33:56  
Yeah, I get it. I mean, any of my friends that I know that have sisters in particular, because I had two brothers. Yeah, really would say to me, and I still hear it to this day, and we are 60 year old ass women. Oh, my God, you're so glad you don't have sisters. What a pain in the ass. Oh, because I always say so, how's so and so doing. And it would just be like I have so many friends that have a lot of sisters. My friend Nadine, who looks after Poppy all the time, has nine sisters, Jesus

Sarah Burke  34:26  
Christ,

Caitlin Green  34:27  
and household of 10 people, attention and two brothers

Jann Arden  34:30  
and two brothers. Oh, my. So the brothers were really in precarious places. You know, they were very estrogen right out the back door. I'm sure

Sarah Burke  34:40  
estrogen was a verb.

Unknown Speaker  34:43  
Yeah, they were

Jann Arden  34:45  
estrogen all over the damn place. I mean, imagine dealing with nine young periods going on in that house, and, oh, the stuff with that. I mean, you don't think about things like that, but it very much plays into girls being moody, petty. When you have nine sisters and you're you, you grow. Up in Saskatchewan, in a farming community. You know, can you imagine, that's my shirt, that's my clothes. Those are my jeans. These are my shoes. I mean, there had to been a lot of that. There had to been competition, because Catholics, they just boomed them out long it's like Russian dolls. My

Caitlin Green  35:16  
grandmother had eight children, and my other grandmother had 10. So my dad grew up in a family of eight, and my mom was in a family of 10. It's no wonder they had one kid. Yeah. Well, I mean, like, ultimately they had health they had health issues, which is why they had one kid. But take that back sweat like I did grow up hearing and witnessing their family dynamics very first hand. And I was acutely aware when people I felt like, you could feel sometimes like adults or certainly not other kids, but adults would like almost pity you for being an only child. But my other friends, who had siblings, were jealous. They were very jealous and so and I was very aware of the fact that I was like the way adults perceive the dynamic of being an only child is not at all the way other children do. Other children I saw they they were very they were all always fighting with their siblings, always, and I mean viciously fighting in a way that's scary,

Jann Arden  36:07  
physically, I physically with my brothers, like we pounded each other. I couldn't

Caitlin Green  36:12  
believe it, because think about this. You're an only child. My favorite game to play at home was library. Okay, so we're coming from that energy level. I should have come to your house, and then I would go over to, like, Michelle Reed's house, and her brother would be like, I have to call 911, right now. Like I was like, I need the police to come. This is not normal. It

Jann Arden  36:30  
was normal though. It was so normal.

Caitlin Green  36:41  
And again, like the way that I saw then kids treat each other at school. Because I was, I didn't even go to daycare when I was younger, my mom was stay at home for a long time. So I was like, this was very odd to me. I mean, I really did grow up around adults only, and I got to school, and it was like, somebody put me in a science experiment. And I was like, You guys are cruel little Hellions. You seek to make each other cry and you physically abuse one another, and I would care to leave

Sarah Burke  37:02  
guys. There was a point where I threw and my sister, we both threw hardcover dictionaries at each other in the kitchen. I remember, my God, we were so mean, both of us.

Caitlin Green  37:11  
I saw it like as the outsider, and expecting me to participate in it as if it was normal, which to me, it was not. So I thought. I was like, Oh yeah, go outside for recess. I was like, Can I stay in here with you, teacher? Because this is where I'm at, and really busy work for me to do in the Oh, yeah, can I please clean the erasers? Don't send me outside with these kids. They're covered in boogers and kicking one another. You know,

Jann Arden  37:34  
we want you to leave us a voice note about this, folks. You know that we want you to write either to us on Patreon or please go to the Jan Arden pod. There's a little red microphone. But I would love, we would love to hear your sibling rivalry stories. We want to know if you're a middle child. We want to know if you're an only child. We want to know if you're from a family of I mean, my grandmother was one of 17 children, so, you know, it's just, it's, it was nutty. I don't think any part of it's easy. I don't think it's easy having one sister. I don't think it's easy having two brothers. I don't think it's easy being an only child. Cynthia Loyce and Jaya. You know, he's nine or 10, and he's fantastic. They've done such a great job with him.

Caitlin Green  38:16  
Do you find that he's, like, very adult for a child? Yes,

Jann Arden  38:18  
I think. But he's also an imaginative kid. Yeah, he can sit, but he's, you know, he's just so nutty. He asks so many great questions. And I think Cynthia and and Jason, her partner, have just done an amazing job. He's really artistic. He, you know, they they answer the questions that he asks. He has meltdowns like everybody else, but you know, he goes on vacation with them and does fun things and meets a lot of new kids like it's not he gets out of his comfort zone a lot. You're going to do great, you, you and Kyle are happening the

Caitlin Green  38:52  
increase in other only children, I mean, and I appreciate hearing that makes me feel better about him very likely being an only child, because I know that other parents are going to be prioritizing that external play from outside of their family, because that's what you really need. And I felt that as a child too, like I realized that so many of my friends were spending a lot of time with their siblings, and so their parents just it wasn't a need for them on Saturday or Sunday to find play dates. I feel like

Sarah Burke  39:16  
Will has a better social life than I do. Truly, when I watch your Instagram, I'm like, I've got a new friend over every day. Well, he

Caitlin Green  39:22  
and he spends a lot of time with adults, and he really likes adults too already. So yeah, he'll be good. But it's, it's interesting. I like hearing this about all the different dynamics. You are

Jann Arden  39:33  
an exceptional person, you're a critical thinker, you're thoughtful, you're creative, you're artistic, like even with whatever happened with your mom and dad? I know they split up when you were younger, and you had step parents involved. I mean, you came out of it pretty damn great, and

Caitlin Green  39:52  
I'm not agreeing, yeah, I did pretty great. But I'm agreeing. I'm validating that like it was, it was topsy turvy, for sure, at points for me. Yeah, but I do think that only children you have, you spend a lot of time alone, and so you do have, like, a certain amount of inner I don't know if it's strength necessarily, but you're just like, it's second nature, so, but thank you, Jan, that's very, very nice of you to say. And I'm having a crummy week, so

Jann Arden  40:16  
you, you have had a lot going on between the colonoscopies and chest colds and headaches food poisoning. Had food poisoning, not only food poisoning, folks, but food poisoning from one of her favorite restaurants that obviously now she will be very reluctant to order from again, because when you've had food poisoning from a place you do, you're you never darken their door again. No, that's done. That's over. I

Caitlin Green  40:42  
don't even want to eat that particular item again, because it's like it's activating a trauma for me to even remember how the takeout container smells, I had to throw the takeout containers out of our kitchen because they were still in our recycling bin, and I, like, shoved vix VapoRub up my nostrils to take it out and then throw it away, because I was so disgusted by the whole thing. And if you're watching us on YouTube and you're like, Caitlin looks a little pallid today. She's the same color as her sweater, you always look great. I'm barely alive.

Jann Arden  41:09  
Listen, we're gonna leave it there. We're gonna leave it there with the with the middle child. We want to hear from you to all our Patreon users. We have a new tier with our book bag club. $7 you get to participate in all of our discussions about our books, which, once again, this month is in memoriam. And someone wrote me a couple days ago and just said, How long do we have to read this book? Like, what's our timelines? I don't want you to feel don't bust your butt to try and get this book read in two weeks. Obviously, we're dealing with a book a month. You can participate in the discussions, whether you're a weekend or two weeks in or whatever. So don't worry about that. I know a lot of you people have put yourself on lists at the library, which is a great idea, or listening to it on Audible. So don't feel panicked. This isn't about you going out and spending more money, trust me, even though we're kicking your butt to, you know, do another tier in Patreon. I'm sounding like a crazy person. Now, we don't want your money, but we do want you to spend money, but yeah, so that's going to be happening. We're going to have book giveaways. We're going to have the discussions. We're going to have special get togethers where you can join up, you know, Sarah organizes, so 100 of us can be on here talking about discussions and doing things in real time, so that's going to be fun, too.

Sarah Burke  42:23  
Couple messages I have to listeners, so Cindy wrote us, and she said a few things about changing after 60 I wanted to expand on what Jan said. I'm well past that age now, and felt the ground seriously start to move at 58 I'm on the West Coast, therefore earthquake metaphors, I agree with Jody Foster and Jan and find it hard to explain to others who haven't experienced this positive shift. It doesn't help that menopause is so often cast in a negative light, like some sad mangling of purpose. In my case, I felt like I've arrived at my destination, and I didn't know it existed in my younger years, Jodie Foster on that beautiful beach in contact comes to mind. I'm happy in my solitude, never bored, full of creativity and intention and grateful for good health and independence.

Jann Arden  43:08  
Fantastic. Cindy, love that.

Caitlin Green  43:11  
Thank you. Cindy, okay,

Sarah Burke  43:12  
so let's see what else here. Wayne, hello. Just finished listening to the January 3 podcast, getting caught up sobriety Tis a beautiful thing. If you can hang on to it, I'll be celebrating 37 years sober on February 1. So he's coming up on that. Congratulations. Oh, that's tomorrow. Tomorrow. Today's podcast, release. My father was 48 years old when he died from drinking in 1977 functioning alcoholic. He worked at GM for 30 years. I moved to Calgary in 79 and was working in the remand center in downtown as a correctional officer. I did try to quit in 1980 but I wasn't ready. I returned to Ontario in 82 with my wife, started a family with two boys, and I quit my aha. Moment was 5am February 1. I retired from corrections in 2013 so cheers continue to be successful and enjoy each days. And when he said cheers, he says, not that clink. Clink content,

Jann Arden  44:14  
not a literal cheers, but like, congratulations on that monumental accomplishment one day at a time. And here's to the next 30 and you have really shown your boys such steadfastness and such strength of character. And I'm sure you have a lot of people that are very proud of you for that, certainly one of the best things I ever did in my life. And I'm always proud of myself for that, because it's a hard thing to give up because you think you're not going to have fun again, and you socially kind of want to fit in, and you always have your mind trying to bypass all the negative parts about drinking. It's always like but, but, but, but, and when you get past that, it's so great. So anyway, I sell. Great with you. So congratulations.

Sarah Burke  45:01  
So the links to leave a voice note, I'm starting to put in the show notes. So everything, Patreon, book club, all that stuff in the show notes.

Jann Arden  45:09  
Great. Well, thanks for your comments, as always. Thanks for listening. Subscribe. If you can hit that little button, it helps people find us, and it helps the podcast find you. Week after week. You don't have to go searching, but we sure appreciate you guys, and I appreciate Caitlin and I appreciate Sarah. We always have great conversations. We hope you enjoyed. Eliza Reid last week, there's still time to show up for the Iceland writers retreat. Even if you want to just take a holiday, why not take a holiday with something going on and and just a reminder that the ex president, the former president I'm using Sarah's ex the former president of Iceland, is going to be a tour guide going out on a day of searching around. So anyway, thanks again to Eliza and her new book, death on the island is coming out soon. So watch for that, and it's going to be one of our book club books. Eventually it'll be my my pick. The girls are next, so there's a couple months of them, and then that's going to be my next pick. But anyway, thanks for listening, and we'll see you next time here on the Jan Arden podcast. Totally. Do you.